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Nexus Clash :: View topic - I'm not having my time wasted anymore
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
My problem with this suggestion is it's effectively just a more complicated version of Greater Invisibility that has had the MP per tick reduction removed;
A fairly typical Voidwalker build using Blood Claws to attack has 60% chance to hit while invisible, and so:
Using normal Invisibility it costs them on average 12 MP to attack (to become invisible again after every attack).
Using a modified Greater Invisibility that still charges 3 MP per game tick will spend 8 MP per attack as above.
Using Invisible Predator it would cost them 8 MP per attack as, on average 4/10 attacks will miss and cost 17 MP, therefore, initially it will cost 12 MP to become invisible, then 17*4 MP for the four misses and 0 MP for the hits, working out as exactly 8 MP per attack again. However, for this to apply they now have a series of restrictions such as not attacking those with auras, immunities or (depending on whether they pick up Precision of the Assassin) those with high soak.
In the end it works out as a net gain of 6 AP per ten attacks on average but the Voidwalker now has a large list of things they can't attack, additionally the above assumes 0% dodge, so it is likely that the MP cost per attack will actually be larger than 8 in general. _________________ My Characters
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
Pikanchion wrote:
My problem with this suggestion is it's effectively just a more complicated version of Greater Invisibility that has had the MP per tick reduction removed;
Umm. Why do you think Greater Invisibility is being removed? I'll tell you, it's not because of the MP cost of shadow-dancing with it. _________________
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
Teksura wrote:
Pikanchion wrote:
My problem with this suggestion is it's effectively just a more complicated version of Greater Invisibility that has had the MP per tick reduction removed;
Umm. Why do you think Greater Invisibility is being removed? I'll tell you, it's not because of the MP cost of shadow-dancing with it.
Void Walkers Invisibility power will be undergoing a rework, the only decision made so far is that they won't be keeping permanent Invisibility.
I personally see potential in a skill for aggressive applications of Invisibility, but currently we'll need to abstain from judgement on the idea.
Greater Invisibility's MP per tick reduction is what allows permanent invisibility, and 60 CP for a 4 MP reduction in the cost of a 12 MP skill and no other benefits is extremely expensive compared to any other skill in the game so it seems reasonable to expect a skill such as this suggestion would be a replacement to Greater Invisibility rather than an additional skill in the chain. _________________ My Characters
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
Pikanchion wrote:
Teksura wrote:
Pikanchion wrote:
My problem with this suggestion is it's effectively just a more complicated version of Greater Invisibility that has had the MP per tick reduction removed;
Umm. Why do you think Greater Invisibility is being removed? I'll tell you, it's not because of the MP cost of shadow-dancing with it.
Void Walkers Invisibility power will be undergoing a rework, the only decision made so far is that they won't be keeping permanent Invisibility.
I personally see potential in a skill for aggressive applications of Invisibility, but currently we'll need to abstain from judgement on the idea.
Greater Invisibility's MP per tick reduction is what allows permanent invisibility, and 60 CP for a 4 MP reduction in the cost of a 12 MP skill and no other benefits is extremely expensive compared to any other skill in the game so it seems reasonable to expect a skill such as this suggestion would be a replacement to Greater Invisibility rather than an additional skill in the chain.
Again, the skill was not removed for its activation cost. It was not removed for shadow-dancing potential. It was removed because of the ability to remain invisible indefinitely. I will say this one more time, this time being a lot more clear: This skill is just an effective 40% reduction in the cost of activating the skill 10 times in a row for the purpose of dealing extra damage. That is not a replacement for greater invisibility because you simply can not do the things greater invisibility allowed. _________________
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
Teksura wrote:
Again, the skill was not removed for its activation cost. It was not removed for shadow-dancing potential. It was removed because of the ability to remain invisible indefinitely. I will say this one more time, this time being a lot more clear: This skill is just an effective 40% reduction in the cost of activating the skill 10 times in a row for the purpose of dealing extra damage. That is not a replacement for greater invisibility because you simply can not do the things greater invisibility allowed.
I know that is the reason, a fact that should have been clear from everything I've posted in this thread. My point is that Invisible Predator is in fact worse than having Greater Invisibility even if the permanent invisibility were no longer possible (but quite similar statistically, hence my use of the word replacement), and that even Greater Invisibility without permanent invisibility is not worth 60 CP so neither is Invisible Predator as it is currently proposed.
I would therefore suggest a new version of Greater Invisibility:
Keep the MP to activate reduction from before, lose the MP on tick reduction as desired by the dev team, and add the not breaking invisibility features (including penalties) from Invisible Predator to make it actually worth the 60 CP. _________________ My Characters
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: [Skill] Invisible Predator (VoidWalker)
Pikanchion wrote:
Keep the MP to activate reduction from before, lose the MP on tick reduction as desired by the dev team, and add the not breaking invisibility features (including penalties) from Invisible Predator to make it actually worth the 60 CP.
So basically, this whole time all you really wanted to say was "Lets have this skill do exactly what it describes in the first post, but also reduce the activation cost by 4 MP".
Why didn't you just say that in the first place? It was entirely unnecessary to go off about how the suggestion is a "more complicated version of greater invisibility" if all you really wanted was the activation cost to be lowered by 4. _________________
This is the first time anybody has actually said that Greater Invisibility as a whole is being removed though, up until now it was only the MP per game tick reduction part listed for removal. Had I known I would have made the same comparison in my first post to justify keeping on the 4 MP activation in this new skill in the first place and hopefully avoided these other posts, sorry. _________________ My Characters
Joined: Aug 15, 2010 Posts: 3955 Location: Gehenna (Earth Branch)
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject:
Pikanchion wrote:
This is the first time anybody has actually said that Greater Invisibility as a whole is being removed though, up until now it was only the MP per game tick reduction part listed for removal. Had I known I would have made the same comparison in my first post to justify keeping on the 4 MP activation in this new skill in the first place and hopefully avoided these other posts, sorry.
...
That's what greater invisibility does. It reduces upkeep and activation cost It would not make sense to leave a 60CP skill lying around which did nothing but reduce the activation by 2MP. Nobody would buy it.
Also
Werechicken wrote:
60cp child skill of invisibility (going into the I'm basing this skill on the fact that I've seen it mentioned the voidwalker will be losing the ability to remain invisible permanently)
_________________
"Oh, sorry, thought I was in a Vault of Enlightenment, not someone's booze cabinet." -Kharn
This is the first time anybody has actually said that Greater Invisibility as a whole is being removed though
It's really not. Every time it has ever been mentioned we've talked about removing the skill, not changing it. I've said directly that the skill is being removed in virtually every reply I have written to your posts in this thread.
So, I'm not buying what you're selling here. and frankly, I'm finished dealing with it. You've hijacked this suggestion thread long enough. No more. _________________
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