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Nexus Clash :: View topic - [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Greetings,
As you all would know I broke the game, twice, by spawning LOTS of zombies. I did this for 4 reasons:
1. Because I could.
2. To deathfarm.
3. To find the threshhold of the server limit on PvE monster vs game breaking latency.
4. To graphically show the need of changing the way monsters are handled in Nexus Clash.
My analysis is as follows:
1. The shambling zombie's control algorythms need work.
2. The threshold for breaking the game is around 350-450 zombies.
3. I got ALOT of lulz from anti-zombie whining.
4. I know how to fix this in a thematic AND coding perspective.
My suggestion is as follows:
1. Change the way the zombie's are loaded as objects to room specific variables like the targets for target shooting.
2. Have them only able to move or attack when a player is in in 9x9 squares around them.
3. Add some chats. "Brains!!!" and "Barhah, Harmanz!!!" comes to mind.
4. Have them be able to enter buildings..
5. Add barricades to be able to corral them in a kill-zone.
6. It would destroy me being able to get lulz in the future by doing it again.
Now let me explain suggestion 1 and 2.
The Nexus 'breaks' not because there are too many zombies BUT because there are too many object orientated variable running for the server to keep up with. So when the threshhold of 350-450 zombies hits, rather than crashing, the server removes the variable's running capacity in an attempt to save the server.
In coding terms, what you are dealing with is an internal 'Denial of Service' attack. This alone justifies a recode of how monsters are handled in the Nexus as effectively you have a 'Trojan Horse' hardcoded into the game to provide a 'Denial of Service' attack given the right circumstances.
When I was coding MUD's in the 1990's we ran into EXACTLY the same problem and handled like I suggested above. Bind the zombies to the room's code and not the whole environment. This removes the 'Trojan Horse' but not the 'Denial of Service' attack. Having them only active their 'monster brains' when a player is in the 9x9 around them removes the 'Denial of Service' attack as they will stop being processed unless a player object is present in their vicinity.
Now people will say this is not thematic... but I say it is. In the current format zombies do not horde. After the change you will find that zombies WILL horde and WILL horde around where the players are. This means zombie attack zones WILL be around players SHs.
Zombie problem fixed.
I broke the game, twice. Here's the data I got from it. Your welcome.
I cheer both of you. _________________ "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Albert Einstein
I fear this would just replace one problem with another, making the game truly unplayable for the lower levels or even just non-tank classes trying to get through a high density area.
Currently the pet lag makes large hordes of shamblers fairly docile and easy to bypass, and not too difficult to kill. You make the server able to handle more of them by putting them into stasis when nobody is nearby and at the same time remove the lag that stops them from attacking people 80% of the time and suddenly it's impossible to cross from one side of Valhalla to the other.
Another lesser concern is that 10 squares out to sea there will just be a massive wall of stasis locked zombies with current wander algorithms creating at-will lag spikes for player who may wish to abuse them or simply an irritation for those who have free movement through water. _________________ My Characters
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: Re: [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Carilgar wrote:
4. Have them be able to enter buildings..
At least with the current zed population, this would completely change the game from PvP to PvE. I bring my deathfarmers inside whenever I can to allow players to gain XP from me killing me. That's one of the main reasons I play Kenny in particular. If the zombies followed me inside to kill me, I might as well stop playing him.
Let's let balance suggestions aside for a bit. This is a topic about 'the game will soon be able to support this many pets with less lag issues'. A faster experience. _________________ "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Albert Einstein
Let's let balance suggestions aside for a bit. This is a topic about 'the game will soon be able to support this many pets with less lag issues'. A faster experience.
But it won't, it will only be able to handle more shamblers and other masterless pets, which I think is a bad thing. If this fixed pet lag, changed how all pets handled, that'd be fine, but this just doesn't do that. _________________ My Characters
Joined: Dec 28, 2013 Posts: 212 Location: West Laurentia Mental Hospital, Wolverton
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:33 am Post subject:
Should the pet code be improved massively? Yes, and I believe it will be.
Should it be possible for the entire game to become a PvE battlefield? No, for the reasons Pikanchion and saulres have stated above.
Should there be clearly-defined (and small) PvE areas of the game? I think so, but that's a suggestion for another day. _________________ "I'm coming up with the 'Anne Frank' scale of prioritization. As in, 'would Anne Frank give a shit about this?'" - jorm
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: Re: [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Carilgar wrote:
Zombie problem fixed.
I broke the game, twice. Here's the data I got from it. Your welcome.
This isn't really a breath 4 suggestion, and I question how your "data" showed that we should implement chatty pets as-per NW and then turn this game into a PVE version of Urban Dead. _________________
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: Re: [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Teksura wrote:
This isn't really a breath 4 suggestion, and I question how your "data" showed that we should implement chatty pets as-per NW and then turn this game into a PVE version of Urban Dead.
OK. Since you do not like the nice way I put this, I will now tell you EXACTLY how to turn it into bug abuse and force the change.
Say I want to take out any faction with a big pet shield. Alone with 6 level 1 alts I can stop pets from working in 3 days. Say it's Monday and we have a big pet shield to go up against on Friday. Spawn LOTS of zombies in the 4 days leading upto the raid, neutralise the pet-shield and wipe the opposing faction with little defence/resistance baring online active players.
Note I have not done this... but I did think about it...
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: Re: [PvE monsters] Confessions of a Zombie Deathfarmer
Carilgar wrote:
Teksura wrote:
This isn't really a breath 4 suggestion, and I question how your "data" showed that we should implement chatty pets as-per NW and then turn this game into a PVE version of Urban Dead.
OK. Since you do not like the nice way I put this, I will now tell you EXACTLY how to turn it into bug abuse and force the change.
Say I want to take out any faction with a big pet shield. Alone with 6 level 1 alts I can stop pets from working in 3 days. Say it's Monday and we have a big pet shield to go up against on Friday. Spawn LOTS of zombies in the 4 days leading upto the raid, neutralise the pet-shield and wipe the opposing faction with little defence/resistance baring online active players.
Note I have not done this... but I did think about it...
So, you're saying that we should turn this into Urban Dead because if we don't then someone like you will alt-abuse to lag the game. Last warning: I don't respond well to threats. "Because we were threatened by a player" is never a reason to change the fundamentals of a game.
Besides, if you had bothered to read the rest of the forum, you'd know your threat is meaningless anyway. I'll let you find the thread that shows you why. _________________
Last edited by Teksura on Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Also... chatty pets is just a THEMATIC RP thing. My main concern is to stop the exploit I just explained.
A: As stated, your "main concern" is flat out irrelevant.
B: Changing the basis of the game from PVP to PVE has exactly nothing to do with your "main concern". _________________
I helped write code about 20 years ago to STOP this sort of exploit. Literally the suggestion I have made will make the exploit I have not used impossible.
You do note in my post that I did say it would make it so no one would ever be able to do this again right?
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