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Nexus Clash :: View topic - And this is why the game is going down, part 2
Your attitude reminds me of a system that DOES NOT like to be criticized. Yesterday I presented a case about a player harassment, and you opted out to not look into it because "I didn't follow the procedure to report it." Do you know what this is comparable to? To a person going to the court and reporting being attacked, but because I didn't put together a "paper-written" case, you court simply look away at the crime.
How does it make ME feel? Like I have no rights or guarantees as a player. Moreover, that my voice and opinions as a player DO NOT COUNT. I have supported Nexus War and Nexus Clash since probably before you even got to be admins, and it saddens me that NC has become such a small community because you drive people away with these type of attitudes.
While I agree my voicing of the harassment was not the one the system requires, a follow-up would have been nice from any of the admins. But so far, no follow-up. Why? Because you don't care about it, it's obvious. A whiny user giving swipes at the admin team without a written report of the case.
I KNOW the admin team has put a lot of work into Clash, but of the whole team, only Shadok has been the only clean one. Everyone knows that Teksura had to be removed from the admin post by Bob because he ABUSED his power. Xirvi is a player that decided to ABUSE the explosive murder ability instead of being a "fair" mod and coders should have disabled the EM ability while their "un-fixable" bug was present. But no, the admins opted to leave that bug up instead of doing what would have been correct: to remove the EM ability while bugged instead of being exploited by a few and laughing about how much fun it was (like the whole CO faction).
Debunked facts? Pfffff, what are you exactly talking about Teksura? The player base number? If you give me a list of currently active players (not alts) then I would believe you. And it would be AMAZING to see the stats of new player registration vs the time they actually play. Maybe that will open your eyes to reality a bit more.
If it's come to this point, I'll invest my time and money in a game where MODS or admins DO NOT play. Because everyone knows it's very easy to abuse power and act against players which tick us off (like myself, apparently). We have seen this happen in MANY admins and mods, but you still don't get it. In all other MMORPGs, MODS AND ADMINS ARE NOT PLAYERS.
But the problem is not only mods and admins playing. The simple fact of having alts subjects the game to abuse. But people insist in having this kind of game mechanics. You know what the solution will be? To have a single character able to change classes. Change with the time, or simply watch how NC dies.
Is my message going to be locked again for voicing my opinions to the community because I should have instead written it to the admins?? Sorry, but writing to the admins will get me nowhere. At least the players will see how things work around here.[/url]
Joined: Dec 28, 2013 Posts: 212 Location: West Laurentia Mental Hospital, Wolverton
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:25 am Post subject:
There are a lot of problems with this post. A lot of problems. In a perfect world, this would simply be locked and binned again, where it belongs. I'm sure it's coming, but until then I'll humour you with a reply.
The only thing I know of that truly drives people away from this game in droves is pointless drama. The great irony is that you spoke of certain players being "drama pots" in this game when at the end of the day, the only person being a "drama pot" in this situation was you. Only you are guilty of that crime today. Was the player who got sweary at you in your original post in the wrong? Absolutely. But by making it into a public spectacle, you essentially proved the wisdom of the current policy: (emphasis mine)
Quote:
DO NOT post about it on the forums.
This is very important because if you do so, we will assume you ignored the proper procedures for the sake of the drama that would be created as a result.
These rules don't exist because the admins are a bunch of totalitarian dictators who like to enforce rules for the sake of rules: they exist so the game doesn't become a mess of drama and public arguments. We play a murder simulator and act like dickheads to each other as characters, but there's no excuse for acting that way toward each other as individual players, or towards members of the development team. There is never an excuse for that.
In regards to allegations of admin abuse: this bullshit about Teksura abusing his admin power is slander and really needs to stop. It has no basis in reality. It's a lie primarily spread by people who revelled in drama and left when they realized there was no place for their shit here. As for myself? Fun fact. I'm not a game admin. I'm not a forum mod. I have no special powers in-game or on the forums. I'm a writer and a mapmaker. I made b3.5 Valhalla, I wrote new tile descriptions for all of the planes, and I offer a lot of unsolicited suggestions. But I have no special powers or abilities. If you're referring to the multi-explosion bug that has existed for as long as the Explosive Murder skill has, the only reason that bug was fixed was because I badgered the dev team until it got fixed. CO is a faction that is firmly rooted in the spirit of fair play. We have a zero tolerance policy for exploiting bugs or breaking the game rules. If you felt there was a case of intentional bug exploiting, you should have reported it to Tek or Shadok - though, evidence would have found no such thing, since I could pretty much never intentionally replicate the multi-explosion bug.
For one, not "all other" MMORPGs have admins and mods relegated to development roles. In most MMORPGs I've played, admins and mods are players as well. They have to be, because developing a game from the perspective of an outsider is often an exercise in frustration. In addition, and you would do well to remember this, no one on the dev team gets paid for their work. We're volunteers - I write because I enjoy it. Rincewind presumably codes because he enjoys it (or because he's a sick, twisted masochist.) What we do is a labour of love and nothing more. We do it because we want this to be the best game it can possibly be. We want it to be fun for everyone, whether it's ourselves, wizened veterans from the NW days, or the newbies fresh off the boat.
Personally? I think breath 3.5 is going to be the best damn version of this game you've ever played. It's a long ways off, but breath 4? It will do even better than that. Clash has stagnated for a lot of reasons, the chief one being that people get bored when they're level 30 and have been there, done that across the game. There are a lot of people who have expressed interest in returning again when this breath (which has gone on far too long) has ended. Until then, you're making a fool of yourself with this kind of thinking - and you're making a fool of yourself very publicly. That's a damn shame. _________________ "I'm coming up with the 'Anne Frank' scale of prioritization. As in, 'would Anne Frank give a shit about this?'" - jorm
Clash has stagnated for a lot of reasons, the chief one being that people get bored when they're level 30 and have been there, done that across the game.
Reboot your characters! I've retired a lot of old guys and brought in some new characters as level 1. It's fun! Mr. Trauma himself is on his 3rd or 4th iteration for this Nexal Breath.
If you call my post drama so be it, but ask the rest of players what they call you on IRC. "The Drama Llama." If anyone is brave enough to back this up, step up. I don't think that's gonna happen anyways.
Xirvi wrote:
Until then, you're making a fool of yourself with this kind of thinking - and you're making a fool of yourself very publicly. That's a damn shame.
No people, you are making fools of yourselves for trying to imitate Nexus Wars. Nexus Wars is over, Clash is only a copy of it. And I'm really done with it. I will release all my characters starting today. Enjoy breath 3.5.
Joined: Aug 15, 2010 Posts: 3955 Location: Gehenna (Earth Branch)
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject:
BinahD wrote:
Yesterday I presented a case about a player harassment, and you opted out to not look into it because "I didn't follow the procedure to report it."
You opted to not have us look into it. You chose not to have it looked into. You knew good and well that kicking up drama is not how to start an investigation. It's stated right in the rules that if you do the exact thing you chose to do, then it won't be taken seriously.
BinahD wrote:
Do you know what this is comparable to? To a person going to the court and reporting being attacked, but because I didn't put together a "paper-written" case, you court simply look away at the crime.
Actually, it's more comparable to being told that doing something is illegal, but you do it anyway. Twice. And complain that now you're in trouble.
BinahD wrote:
How does it make ME feel? Like I have no rights or guarantees as a player. Moreover, that my voice and opinions as a player DO NOT COUNT.
Only when you chose to have them not be taken seriously by doing the very things you're told will result in it not being taken seriously. You were told exactly what we need from you before we can do anything about it. you've refused to give that to us. You've been told that doing what you've now done twice is not allowed, and that you need to take it up in a PM. You've refused to do that as well, and instead insisted on crapping all over the forum.
BinahD wrote:
While I agree my voicing of the harassment was not the one the system requires, a follow-up would have been nice from any of the admins. But so far, no follow-up. Why? Because you don't care about it, it's obvious. A whiny user giving swipes at the admin team without a written report of the case.
We did follow up. We told you exactly what you would have to PM us. I even went out of my way to invite you to do so. You refused to PM us anything. Now now you're launching into personal attacks against the admin team because we "didn't follow up" with something you never bothered to provide us with. So, knowing full and well what we needed from you, you made the choice to not provide that information to us. And now you're complaining because we didn't have that information you wouldn't give us? Please.
BinahD wrote:
I KNOW the admin team has put a lot of work into Clash, but of the whole team, only Shadok has been the only clean one. Everyone knows that Teksura had to be removed from the admin post by Bob because he ABUSED his power.
Except that falls apart when you introduce facts into the discussion. As we all know, Teksura was only removed because the server host at the time was holding the server hostage. Remember when Bob cleared him of that accusation? There's been a lot of looking into the case since it happened, and none of it looks good for the ones who loved making those accusations against Tek. In fact, it was found that they were entirely fabricated. You might also remember that he told everyone that continuing to bring it up is not permitted, so one really has to wonder what your goal is from bringing up things you know are lies, and that Bob specifically told you to let die.
A rational person might assume your goals are similar to the goals of one who intentionally re-makes a second version of the first locked thread after being instructed to take things in a PM.
BinahD wrote:
Xirvi is a player that decided to ABUSE the explosive murder ability instead of being a "fair" mod and coders should have disabled the EM ability while their "un-fixable" bug was present. But no, the admins opted to leave that bug up instead of doing what would have been correct: to remove the EM ability while bugged instead of being exploited by a few and laughing about how much fun it was (like the whole CO faction).
1: Xirvi is not an admin.
2: Xirvi is not a mod.
3: Xirvi is a writer/mapmaker for the team, and nothing more.
4: Xirvi is the only reason that stupid bug got fixed in the first place.
5: The bug took so long to fix because for the longest time, we DIDN'T have anyone who COULD fix it. when we did get a new coder, it was Xirvi who got on their case to get the bug fixed ASAP.
6: Your idea that we should have removed EM from every single character would have been simply impossible. The only means to do so would have been to manually flip through the profiles of thousands of characters, remove the skill, and then just hope nobody buys it back. Since once again, we didn't have anyone with any database access to do anything else.
BinahD wrote:
Debunked facts? Pfffff, what are you exactly talking about Teksura? The player base number? If you give me a list of currently active players (not alts) then I would believe you. And it would be AMAZING to see the stats of new player registration vs the time they actually play. Maybe that will open your eyes to reality a bit more.
This is called a Red Herring attack.
You made a claim about "extensive abuse mods have done in the past".
It was pointed out to you that those claims have been debunked long ago by Bob.
So, unable to respond to that, you do this. Player stats have nothing to do with the fact that your claims about "extensive abuse mods have done in the past" were debunked long ago.
BinahD wrote:
If it's come to this point, I'll invest my time and money in a game where MODS or admins DO NOT play. Because everyone knows it's very easy to abuse power and act against players which tick us off (like myself, apparently). We have seen this happen in MANY admins and mods, but you still don't get it. In all other MMORPGs, MODS AND ADMINS ARE NOT PLAYERS.
Funny, I remember hearing about how many complaints there were that Jorm didn't know what he was doing with his game since he didn't play it. Furthermore, we're volunteers. None of us are paid a dime for our time. In those "other" MMORPGs you mention, those admins and mods? They get paid to deal with that crap. We tried that approach briefly. You ever heard of Liche? He was our admin who worked for nothing and didn't play the game. He quickly lost interest in dealing with all that responsibility and having nothing to show for it. Short version? We've already tried exactly what you proposed. It didn't work. Insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.
We also have very strict policies and procedures which govern the actions taken by the moderation team. Teksura can get pretty anal about making sure everyone is following those policies (and may heaven help you if he catches you not doing so). But so far, the only "abuse" you're able to point out has either already been proven a lie, or is the direct result of your actions when you knew (and possibly counted on) the consequences ahead of time. We've had not one, but two separate players join the development team for the purpose of searching for dirt on us to hand to drama-whoring players. But since Teksura set such ironclad policies and convinced everyone else to follow his example in following them, everything we do is up for review by the rest of the team and done in plain sight. Nothing they could find was remotely close to being something they could use to attack us as being improper.
BinahD wrote:
But the problem is not only mods and admins playing. The simple fact of having alts subjects the game to abuse. But people insist in having this kind of game mechanics. You know what the solution will be? To have a single character able to change classes. Change with the time, or simply watch how NC dies.
This is what the Rules Discussion forum is for.
BinahD wrote:
Is my message going to be locked again for voicing my opinions to the community because I should have instead written it to the admins?? Sorry, but writing to the admins will get me nowhere. At least the players will see how things work around here.[/url]
No, your thread is going to be locked again because you have once again chosen to be a drama-whore with no regard for the truth, or the forum rules. Writing to the admins when you believe you need the admins to act against a case of harassment is the only way to get anywhere. Throwing a temper tantrum in public where you make numerous baseless personal attacks and show 0 interest in actually resolving the supposed problem you claim to have ends up with predictable results. _________________
"Oh, sorry, thought I was in a Vault of Enlightenment, not someone's booze cabinet." -Kharn
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