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For what it's worth, we actually spend a lot of time talking about how to improve feral gameplay for B4. It's too late in the current breath to change gamplay dynamics. We made changes to just TLL and had to refund a lot of people and recalculate CP spent, etc. So you're right in saying that you probably won't see anything B3.5 because that would just cause too much chaos.
Behind the scenes, more of us are more pro-feral than you think, actually. It's just that right now we're so early in development (making great progress, mind you) that we aren't ready to release anything because as of yet, it's mostly speculative and ideas change or evolve every day. So while I can't make any promises right now, I will tell you that it's something we talk about every few days and that you should not expect to see any changes in B3.5 We can't get too hung up on changing, tweaking, and perfect a game which is largely going to be rewritten anyway.
Have faith. There's a lot of banter going on behind the scenes that takes a long hard look at a lot of issues players bring up in the forums and there's now a substantially sized dev team to deal with and explore those issues.
Faith!
How? When I have witnessed such conversations about Feral play. When the consensuss in discussion was raid heavy. A phrase repeated within the Pet Master debate was "If you play it feral, you are playing it wrong!"
Also Repth, I commented from my experiances in the discussions about feral play. It was talked about for months over and over in IRC and frequently crops up there.
A few of those points are why the wild places are generally empty. I never expected anything in 3.5 to change in this regard. I don't expect it to change at all in B4.
After experiencing these "Discussions" after witnessing the points of view. After reading what I have been told while here, No; I don't have much faith in feral play in B4.
Nor do I feel that the Feral play issues have been acknowledged because of where / who a lot of it came from. (cliques, *shrugs*)
So please don't ask for examples. We already know them all. To be honest I don't have the time nor inclination to want to discuss it again. I lost interest the last time when the phrase "Its a raiding game!" dismissed those in favor of a feral playstyle, over and over and over again...
That is why I have no faith in B4 Feral Play and why I doubt I will come back for long in B4.
You have my permission to happy dance in celebration of that last sentiment. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
A phrase repeated within the Pet Master debate was "If you play it feral, you are playing it wrong!"
Links please? I doubt this was what was said. Mostly the phrase was "if you think you can survive, you're doing it wrong" and "If you think you need a needlessly large horde, then you're doing it wrong". I highly doubt anyone said that playing it feral at all would be playing it wrong. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
For what it's worth, we actually spend a lot of time talking about how to improve feral gameplay for B4. It's too late in the current breath to change gamplay dynamics. We made changes to just TLL and had to refund a lot of people and recalculate CP spent, etc. So you're right in saying that you probably won't see anything B3.5 because that would just cause too much chaos.
Behind the scenes, more of us are more pro-feral than you think, actually. It's just that right now we're so early in development (making great progress, mind you) that we aren't ready to release anything because as of yet, it's mostly speculative and ideas change or evolve every day. So while I can't make any promises right now, I will tell you that it's something we talk about every few days and that you should not expect to see any changes in B3.5 We can't get too hung up on changing, tweaking, and perfect a game which is largely going to be rewritten anyway.
Have faith. There's a lot of banter going on behind the scenes that takes a long hard look at a lot of issues players bring up in the forums and there's now a substantially sized dev team to deal with and explore those issues.
Faith!
How? When I have witnessed such conversations about Feral play. When the consensuss in discussion was raid heavy. A phrase repeated within the Pet Master debate was "If you play it feral, you are playing it wrong!"
It kind of sounds like you're talking about this thread. The one where you were finally told the definition of the word redundant and that it doesn't mean the same thing as useless. Except what you describe here wasn't the phrase repeated. Your complaint was that you were not enjoying playing a petmaster a certain way, you didn't enjoy spending all your time summoning a ton of pets specifically for stronghold defense on raids. Lets look over that phrase repeated which you are citing now:
With the frequency of raids at the moment it just isn't viable to defend if I want to get shinizzle done. Its not like I get xp from defending, badges or resorces.
SO QUIT DOING IT.
Seriously, if you don't like it, don't do it; nobody's making you sustain a giant pet wall and nobody would fault you for doing something different if it's not fun for you.
Pets force a raiding team to slow down while they deal with the pet wall. Time is critical in a raid, the longer it takes the more likely someone will notice and alert everyone else. Calling this "useless" is silly. If you don't enjoy a certain play style, stop playing that way. Play it a different way. Play it the way you enjoy or for goodness sake play a different class. But stop complaining about how much you don't like a playstyle which doesn't appeal to you. Let the people who enjoy it keep playing it the way they enjoy. Don't try and take that from them just because you don't enjoy it. That's selfish.
Rael: You can hunt effectively with a PM, or you can build a pointlessly big pet wall that doesn't do anything more than what the relatively small petwall does. I have no idea Why you keep on insisting that you need that pointlessly big pet wall. You've said it yourself: Big pet wall is pointless - so Why do you keep insisting that building one should be easier?
Petmasters are inherently one of the highest prep classes there is (if you play them that way - They also have the highest damage output per AP/MP invested in that prep time). If you have a problem with this, then do not play a petmaster.
Quote:
Now consider doing that 4 times a week (being raided), you do nothing else as its two to three ap cycles to achieve your optimal horde size for skills. At 4 raids a week, you gain nothing for doing so and no freedom to do anything else.
Most factions do not get successfully raided four times a week - So far this year, only one faction has had their stronghold taken out four times in one week (more than any other faction), and they are near the top of the list for the faction that has had their ward broken the most in 2016. They've had no issues keeping the petwall up.
If you're talking about another discussion then by all means tell us which one and provide those quotes... But I don't expect that to happen, and I don't think you wanted to do it- you specifically asked people not to request you provide quotes to back up your claims. I could go on and on and on with cases of people not saying what you said they said, but I won't. I won't because this is a good point to dive into the next problem: Your habitual embellishment of pretty much everything. Notice how in the above quote, Wind has to call you out on your claim that you get raided 4 times a week? What you described doesn't happen.
Oh yeah, and then there was that time you said you spent 2 days getting the last 2 books needed for your grind, and I checked your logs because that sure sounded fishy. What I found was that you easily found and read 13 books in the timeframe where you claimed to have only found 2. That's a hell of a fabrication on your part just to lament having trouble finding the books you actually didn't have any trouble finding.
And I could go on but that would be redundant. RaelCleap, we've supported you when you wanted to do special things. We went out of our way to do things for you because it seemed like a cool thing to do. Heck, I made an exploration badge for you when all you asked for was a tile rename. I did this because it was a cool thing to do to for someone who had donated as much as they had. And then you started pulling stuff like this on the forum. You started complaining about problems which are either imagined or self-imposed and you made the choice to ignore what was pretty much the entire forum explaining why you're wrong. You've gone out of your way to lie just to create fake problems just to complain about these fake problems and hold these fake problems up as an example to prove a point you can't otherwise make. And we have been patient with you to a point. You've repaid us by pushing the line more and more and we're now getting tired of it. You are intentionally spreading misinformation just to bash the game and the team of volenteers who support it. This is a problem, and not because people spreading misinformation on purpose is unethical, it's a problem because it can be harmful to the health of the game if this is the sort of thing new players keep seeing in the forums. Please try not to step past the point of no return. _________________
Rael, in most of your post, you've stated your dismay and dissatisfaction to the things that happens between you, the game, the devs, and #clash. That they were hurting your feelings and most of the time you don't agree with each other. You've said goodbye to this game 3 times and was never coming back and you've failed each time.
I think it's time to see a therapist. Abusive relationships that you can't get out off needs to be addressed! Find something that doesn't hurt you and agrees with you! You deserve better. SERIOUSLY.
It is easy to ignore this criticism, and no I will not make posts and posts about quotes and links, where they came from ect. like an OCD idiot. I just don't care enough to do so anymore.
But, and I will say this, "IRC"
Also Tek', a Doctor and a few others reiterated on many occasions that "If you play a pet master feral, you are playing it wrong" Although iterated more rudely in IRC discussion.
It was in these debates in IRC, that I saw the opinions of the developers of clash. Their rudeness towards opposing opinion on such things, and most of all, closed mindedness.
No Tek I won't go all OCD posting and wasting time on things that are not on the forum, but from IRC when the debate on feral / Pm / certain skills was relevant at the time. Also it is not on the forum as you well know, because you removed the thread's in one of your "Pissy fits!" Lord forbid someone points out where things don't work.
In the IRC discussions I was talking about Feral as a whole, not even the feral PM issues. But again greeted with the answer...
"If you are playing it feral, you are doing it wrong!" (Paraphrased)<------ from Eaglewiz, Tek's and Rincewinds fingers in IRC on the fair few points about feral play made. Then I stopped caring and stopped playing. (yup Dissident, me no play no more!) .
So go ahead, mock me, call me a troll, figuratively drag my name through the dirt, I don't care.
If you cannot handle the criticism, if you don't remember what people have said or care why they said it, why be a developer? The job just isn't for a person with these negative qualities.
I gave an opinion, an honest opinion on my feelings on the matter. I did play mainly feral, all those who know me know that. Raids bore me and at the core only benefit the few over the many.
It is the "Raid only" mentality of development that made this game stagnant for me. It is also why I will not repeat those points on feral play over and over again as it has been shown through trial and error as a pointless use of time and energy. It isn't heard or acknowledged!
As thus, it is why I have no faith in B4 feral play development.
But what would I know, I'm the idiot troll right? *sarcasm*
One thing I do not miss is the Cliques here. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
After experiencing these "Discussions" after witnessing the points of view. After reading what I have been told while here, No; I don't have much faith in feral play in B4.
I personally hope to prove you wrong come B4 _________________ hi
It is easy to ignore this criticism, and no I will not provide even a single quote to back up what I'm saying. Because I simply can not. Because I am just plain lying and choose to insult anyone and everyone who dares to ask me to back up my claims.
Then stop it. Now. I asked you once already, I gave you a chance to gracefully back off like I allowed you to do when you lied about how many books you found. You've chosen to double down, and now have chosen to fabricate entire threads and claim that I had "deleted them in a pissy fit" just to spite you. And yet, nobody remembers this thread and you're sure not telling us anything about it, and it's not in our removed post area, either.
You need to learn that when you reach the point where you have to start making things up just to argue whatever point you're trying to argue and whatever attacks you want to make, then you've reached the stage where your point isn't worth making and your attacks are unwarranted. You need to understand we do not appreciate these games on make believe. And you need to understand that our patience is limited. _________________
For what it's worth, what I remember of the PM-feral discussion was that people suggested playing a feral petmaster focused on maintaining a large horde was "playing it wrong," and that a petmaster could be as successful as any other feral (and often more so!) by maintaining a smaller, more mobile group of minions.
Two cents into the abyss.
On the point of strongholds being too turtle-y, yes. They very much so are. I think another part of it is the map size--people generally have enough AP to make it home from wherever they are. It's pretty rare that one needs to hide out for a cycle in order to get where they're going. That also cuts down on the prey found out-of-doors. I do think we should somehow provide incentive for being more mobile, and I think that might require a pretty significant look at the basic design principles behind Nexus gameplay. It seems that yes, raiding and inter-faction war are the main focal points of play...however we need a healthy dose of solo-venturing, non-combat/support roles, and killing to keep people entertained between raids.
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