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Tank Theorycrafting
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EagleWiz
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Tank Theorycrafting Reply with quote

Tanks: Seraph, Infernal Behemoth, and Eternal Soldier
Theorycrafting: Sounds a lot better then blatant minmaxing.

I am starting with comparing the tank classes because their mechanics tend to be fairly uncomplicated. Any corrections or feedback would be welcome.

Note: All damage calculations are assuming the target has no abilities that would affect the hit chance.
All calculations are assuming CP is spent in a way that makes the character most effective at the role, and it is generally impossible without badges to have both the most effective defenses and maximum damage. All weapon enchantments assumed to be at +4 , and any weapons are assumed to be in pristine condition.

Max Seraph Defenses: Can have up to 106 HP, a 7 damage aura, and 7 in all defenses, with the exception of 8 death and holy defense and only 6 unholy defense, although actual elemental unholy and arcane defences will probably be lower due to the skills granting these defenses being not particularly popular. Can permanently maintain +2 or +4 to these soak values at the cost of 1 AP and 7 (or 5) MP per 20 (or 30) ticks.

Max Seraph Damage (feral): Can do 16 damage with a 85% chance to hit (although the last 5% costs 60 CP and may be skipped). Use one point of clockwork precision to change it to a 15 damage 95% to hit attack. Bolster Attack costs 5MP and 1 AP and adds 2 damage to the attack lasting 10 ticks, resulting in an average DPT (damage per turn) of 14.68-(targets piercing armor*.86) , 14.25 -(targets piercing armor*.95) without Bolster attack. If the enemy has any ranged defense using 2 or even 3 levels of clockwork precision is optimal, otherwise one level results in the highest DPT

Max Seraph Damage (friendly enchanter) (melee):
In a rather unexpected turn the most potent melee weapon for a seraph to use (assuming one has eye of clockwork precision) might be a hammer (warhammer/sledgehammer). Although the hammer has a 15% lower chance to hit (with strength) than the obvious choice of a bladed weapon, it has 2 higher damage, which can be used with eye of clockwork precision to get a 6 damage 15% base hit chance weapon (before pristine bonus), 5% higher then the hit chance of a katan resulting in (assuming +4 enchantment and a third point of damage sacrificed) 15 damage with a 100% hit chance, or 17 damage bolstered. This results in a DPT of 15 - armor or 15.45 - (armor *.91) bolstered. Sacrificing 4 or even 5 points of damage if the enemy has melee dodge is optimal.

A seraph with a chainsaw has even higher damage, albeit with a fuel requirement and a rather unusual weapon for an angel to use: Sacrifice two points of damage to eye of precision to get a DPT of 16.29-(armor * .90) or sacrifice three points if using bolstered attack for a DPT of 16.45- (armor *.87)
Note: No offence to any angels with chainsaws, please don't murder me.

Max Seraph Damage (friendly enchanter) (archery):
A long bow +4 enchanted does 19 damage , 21 when bolstered and has a 95% chance to hit. It is strictly better then any other bow with eye of precision, which should be used only if the enemy has ranged dodge. The DPT of this weapon is 16.41-(armor * .91) or if bolstered sacrifice one damage for 16.53-(armor *.83)

Max Seraph Damage (friendly enchanter) (thrown) requires a ridiculously high level of assistance and will be ignored.

The final thing we will look at when considering Seraph Damage is the most efficient use of MP. The seraph has three combat skills that use MP: Smite, Greater Smite and Bolster Attack.
The damage bonus from using smite is most obvious: for the price of 10 MP the seraph gets 8 extra damage (plus conversion to holy). We can assume the damage bonus is 8, as the seraph can (and should) use eye of precision to ensure a successful hit. Thus smite is worth .8 damage per point of MP.
The damage bonus from Bolster Attack is also fairly simple. It provides an increase in DPT for 10 turns. Using the builds above, bolster attack is slightly superior to smite if using a warhammer or wing shards, while smite is better if a chainsaw is used. For bow users smite is better against lightly (<4) armored targets, while bolster is better against those with 4+ armor, although smite has the advantage of killing people quickly, (i.e, if less then 10 turns are left in the combat smite is almost always better).
Finally we will look at Greater Smite, which does
7 more damage than normal smite for the cost of an extra AP (assuming the upgrade that reduces MP costs is purchased) It is a more efficient attack then smite if the DPT from a normal attack would be less then 7, or if the enemy has over 8 armor and the wing shards/hammer build is used, 11 armor if the bow build is used and 12 if the chainsaw is used.

Other notes / relevant things about seraph:
Defensive Stance is about as OP as breath 3 swimming.
Unlike other tanks the seraph lacks natural HP regen.
The seraph is restricted to good alignment.


Last edited by EagleWiz on Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:29 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eternal Soldier (Tanky): Can have up to 116 HP (20 of it costs 60 CP, 5 of it costs another 60. Neither mastery of Vigor nor Endurance seem like good skills to me). Will usually have 5 physical soak, 4 fire cold and alligned soak, and only 3 soak against electric, acid, and death.
Like all characters can get up to 7 piercing soak through armor.
Can get 30% defense. This can make it very hard for low-mid level characters to hit, and can even pose difficulty for poorly optimized high level ones. Master of the Flow can add an extra 20% miss chance, but at a heavy AP and MP cost that is really not worth it.

Eternal Soldier (Feral, Punching):
Has three melee attacks: A kick (that is worse then punching people), a 90% hit chance 13 damage attack and a 75% hit chance 15 damage attack. Factoring in the bonus from improved critical this results in DPT of 12.24-.armor*.9 for the more accurate attack and 11.78- (armor *.75) for the more damaging one. In short, the damaging fist attack is better against armored targets.

Eternal Soldier (Guns, has enchanter help)
Assuming a +4 pristine rifle, the eternal soldier can do 18 points of damage ignoring soak and reload time, and with a 95% hit chance. This results in a DPT of 17.96

Finally let us look at offensive uses of MP: Focused Attack, Way of Fire and Way of Urgency.

Focused Attack costs 8 mp for 6 bonus damage, or .75 damage per MP. Way of Fire costs 10 mp for 15 bonus damage, or 1.5 damage per MP, double the effect of Focused Attack.

Way of Urgency is somewhat harder to calculate. For the next 10 attacks damage is increased by 2, for the cost of 2 AP and 5MP (or 2 AP worth of damage + 7), meaning it is a bonus of around 13 damage (misses cancel out the bonus damage from crits) for the loss of 2 attacks.
Unless you are using hand to hand combat against a heavily armored opponent this ability is actually a LOSS in DPT, even ignoring the MP cost.
One might go so far as to rename it Way of Urgently Take Any Other Skill.

Other notes about the Eternal Soldier
Unlike other tanks has no alignment restrictions.
Travel skill is better for navigating buildings but cant fly over obstacles.
Meditation makes poison resistance fairly redundant.


Last edited by EagleWiz on Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infernal Behemoth

Maximum Behemoth Defense: 166 HP, 4 impact soak, 5 slashing soak, 7 piercing soak. 6 soak against unholy, arcane and electric but only 5 soak against death and 4 soak versus cold and holy and 9 soak versus acid. Behemoths can be immune to fire, and can have an 8 damage fire aura. It is fairly likely that a level 30 behemoth will have this level of defense, as the behemoth skills that add health and armor are all quite good.

The behemoth has two ways of temporarily preventing enemy damage, although both are situational and have downsides.
The first is by activating bloodlust by smiting or killing someone. This lasts 30 turns, gives the behemoth -10% to defense but increases all soaks by 1 (or 2 with Adrenal Healing, a skill that is generally considered to be subpar)
The second method the behemoth has of preventing enemy damage is by exploding. In this case the enemy cannot damage the behemoth because the behemoth exploded. Although powerful, this has a significant downside, namely death.

Behemoth Damage (Tail Whip): Tail Whip can get up to an 85% hit chance and 13 damage. This results in a DPT of 11.05 - (.85*armor)

Behemoth Damage (Whip of Torment): Whip of Torment can get up to a 70% chance to hit and does 12 damage, although the damage is Unholy.
This results in a DPT of 8.4- (.7*armor), significantly lower then the damage of Tail Whip, and only a little better then the DPT from blood claws, although it is better against targets that have high slashing soak and low unholy soak such as paladins/seraphs (barley), or someone with physical armor but no unholy soak enchantments

Behemoth Damage (Enchanted Heavy Weapon): Using a +4 pristine Warhammer a behemoth can get up to 15 damage with a 75% hit chance. This results in a DPT of 11.25-(.75*armor), only slightly higher then the damage from Tail Whip (although the enchanted warhammer deals elemental/allignment damage) This also requires a deal of maintanance on the warhammer, but does free up 60 CP that would have been spent on tail whip.

Behemoth Damage (Magic Chainsaw): A +4 pristine Chainsaw can do up to 17 damage with an 80% hit chance, although fuel is needed every 20 attacks. This results in a DPT of 12.95-(.76*armor), and has similar tradeoffs to the enchanted warhammer, with the additional constraint of needing fuel.

Behemoth Damage (Claws):
Although lower damage then the other behemoth builds, this remains a fairly popular damage source for lower level or very tanky behemoths due to the low CP cost. They can deal up to 9 damage with a 80% hit chance, or 7.2-(.8*armor) DPT.

Behemoth Mana Use:
The behemoth has 5 offensive skills that cost mana, and figuring out which ones are the best to use can be complex. Note that Behemoths have few uses beyond combat for mana.

The first skill is Hellfire: For 10 MP you do 8 more damage, exactly like smite except the damage is unholy. This skill provides a good baseline, and might be worth getting for a build that doesnt use Rage Strike or has the extra CP.

The second skill is straightforward: Destructive Blow. This does triple damage against wards, making it a great skill to use against them, and automatically destroys doors. Obviously this is the best way to use mana when your opponent is an inanimate object.
The other use of Destructive blow is that it damages armor. Ignoring the added spite value of breaking someones armor before killing them, the value of degrading someones armor is 1 extra damage each other time you damage them (only if using physical attacks). This is worth it over Hellfire if you will need to damage the opponent 5 or more ADDITIONAL times to kill them. As opponents who use non-inherent armor usually have low HP, this skill is mostly just worth it for door destruction, raiding, and being a troll.

The third skill I will look at is Burning Aura, which costs 10 MP and 1 AP but adds one damage to all attacks and converts damage to fire. As Hellfire gives .8 extra damage per MP spent, 10 MP is effectively worth 8 damage. Even assuming all burning aura attacks hit, it only results in 2 bonus damage and costs 1 AP. Burning aura might be worth it to activate if you are facing an enemy with very high soak against your normal attack and low soak against fire, but such a situation would be rare.
This is not to say that burning aura is a bad skill. The passive 8 damage aura it gives you is a good deterrent and an incredible pet killer, but the flaming weapon status is just not worth the AP. This is one of the signature skills of the behemoth. Clearly worth getting, and only because of the aura.

The fourth skill is Enervate/Rend Flesh (if you plan on using Enervate get Rend Flesh). This skill initially reduces enemy defense by 10% (as if an enervated attack hits it will cause the enemies life to drop below maximum in almost all cases), and causes them to take 1 more damage from all attacks. This bonus increases to 20% and 3 more damage the lower their health gets. The attack costs only 5 MP, which using hellfire as a baseline is equivalent to 4 damage.

With tail whip this results in 13.3 DPT on further attacks, increasing to 15 and 16 DPT at hp thresholds.
With the enchanted warhammer DPT increases to 13.6, 16.15, and 18 at thresholds.
With the enchanted chainsaw DPT becomes 15.4, 18.1 and 19.0.

The DPT benefits from enervate are substantial, and the longer needed to kill an enemy the more enervate pulls ahead. Even if the enemy is already moderately damage an enervate attack that drops them to below 50% will apply the second level of debuffs, increasing DPT on subsequent attacks by 4-5. Hellfire is only better then enervate if the extra hellfire damage would kill the enemy right away, or if enervate was already applied. As Rend Flesh (the upgrade to enervate needed to make it good) costs the same CP as hellfire, I would recommend it over hellfire if you don't want both skills. Should one need to dispatch an enemy rapidly, the final ability that I will be looking at should suffice.

The final ability I will be looking at is Rage Strike. Like the Seraph ability Greater Smite, Rage Strike costs 1 additional AP and 15 MP (or 10 with the upgrade to it, but that upgrade is really not worth 60 CP when there are so many good behemoth skills to pick from).
Similar to Greater Smite, Rage Strike is a DPT bonus if the enemy is very heavily armored, but Rage Strike also applies the Bloodlust buff. Unupgraded this buff only gives a +1 damage bonus, but with the Berserk Frenzy skill the bonus increases to +3, and grants a 10% bonus to hit, but causing a MP drain for noncombat actions (disable bloodlust after combat).

The (upgraded) Bloodlust DPT increases to 15.2 with tailwhip, 15.3 with the warhammer, and 18 with the chainsaw, for an overall DPT bonus of over 4 on the whip and hammer, and slightly over 5 for the chainsaw.
Again, using the hellfire baseline of .8 damage per MP, Rage Strike gives 3 bonus damage and applies a buff for the cost of 1 attack (assuming it hits), making Rage Strike only worth it in scenarios where the enemy will take 3 turns to kill AFTER the Rage Strike hits. In these scenarios Enervate is also a good skill, and should be applied first. Rage Strike is worth using IF you have bloodlust and berserk frenzy and IF the enemy is already enervated and IF the enemy would still take about 5 or more turns to kill normally. Although this sounds quite conditional, it is worth noting that the enemies that it is good against are the enemies that are hard to kill normally. Bloodlust and its upgrade are also good if you will be attacking multiple enemies in the space of 30 actions.
Rage Strike is also good against petmasters or enemies with damage auras, as attacking twice without it triggers 2 different aura/pet retaliations.

The Rage Strike Bloodlust Berserk Frenzy skill combo is not worth buying in a tail whip build (not enough CP to take these skills without sacrificing needed tank skills), but in an enchanted heavy weapon build these skills could be worth the points.

Adrenal Healing however is not worth the points. If you want to be able to heal, spend the 60 CP on the pariah skills Blood Claws and Blood Taste which allow you to heal 4 damage from all attacks and not just 3 damage while in bloodlust. Of all the Behemoth skills, Adrenal Healing is the only one that I would consider actually bad. Unfettered Fury isn't even bad per say, its just outclassed by the other behemoth skills.

Other notes about the Behemoth:

Behemoths must be evil or lose all non-mortal powers, although I don't think many behemoths find themselves at risk of reforming.
Behemoths can not acquire enhanced senses. All other tanks can.
Although next to worthless from a strict power gaming standpoint, explosive murder just might be the most beloved skill in the entire game.
Behemoth skills make them poor at attacking from range.
Blood Taste allows a Behemoth to heal 4 damage from each successful melee attack.
Behemoths lack a skill that gives them poison immunity. The upside is that Behemoths are at no risk of wasting precious CP on a T3 skill that gives them poison immunity.


Last edited by EagleWiz on Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:31 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of power Seraph is slightly more powerful then Behemoth, IF the Seraph can afford all the t2 and t3 skills they need. Realistically a Seraph build will need to sacrifice some of that power (or grind a ton of badges) due to CP limitations. Also, good alignment is harder to maintain then evil.

Both Seraphs and Behemoths are very strong at surviving, with the seraphs greater possible armor (way greater in guardian stance) making them better versus chip damage (a lot of low damage attacks), while the Behemoths massive HP pool makes them good against burst damage (see Way of Fire). The Seraph has the slight edge in damage, but this becomes less noticable once CP constraints are accounted for (That 60 cp seraph skill that gives +5% to attacks is so overpriced it’s not even in the character planner), and the Behemoth applies enervate

If the Seraph and Behemoth classes are brothers, the Eternal Soldier would be the red headed step child of the tank family, the product of an illicit affair with a void walker. Their armor is weak, they can’t fly, they lack a damage aura, but they are capable of dealing a lot of damage very quickly and they can avoid damage entirely (by dodging). Although the Eternal Soldier may not be the class most in need of a buff (it’s not even in the top 3 imo), it is a class in desperate need of an identity.

Average damage taken by tank classes before pet dies:
Note: Assume the most powerful version of the pet (petmaster has all child skills pertaining to said pet). This is assuming level 30 tanks with all relevant skills. NormSeraph is a seraph that does not have guardian of the innocent (a skill usually only used by the tankiest of seraph builds) and TankSeraph has guardian of the innocent and is in guardian stance.
Code:

                   NormSeraph   TankSeraph   Eternal Soldier   Behemoth
Avenging Light      18 damage     18 damage   45 damage    90 damage
Judgemaster      35.2 damage      8.8 damage  100 damage     61.6 damage
Wheel Of Right    36.4 damage    9.1 damage  224 damage    67.2 damage
Aethersprite      0-1 damage    0-1 damage    4 damage   1.2 damage
Bengal Tiger      78 damage   19.5 damage   63 damage   117 damage
Skeleton      13 damage   3.25 damage   94.5 damage   15.6 damage
Ghoul         21.6 damage   6 damage   60 damage   36 damage
Fossil Monster   67.6 damage 33.8 damage   280 damage   78 damage
Will-O-Wisp      10 damage   10 damage   12 damage   6 damage
Wight         33 damage   12 damage   94.5 damage   42 damage
Chain Gremlin      72 damage   18 damage   45 damage   54 damage
Hellhound       18.2 damage   9.1 damage   70 damage   23.8 damage
Nether Hound      54.6 damage   9.1 damage   200 damage   61.6 damage
Tentacle       6 damage   3 damage   27 damage   3 damage
Imp                  1.65 damage   1.65 damage   8.75 damage   0 damage
Wrackworm           68.25 damage       19.5 damage   234 damage   49.5 damage


Last edited by EagleWiz on Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Armykid500
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for doing this, I love looking at stuff like this. You're awesome Very Happy
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Sihoiba
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I would add to your calculations is average damage taken to kill a pet (i.e. how much damage the pet will do to you before the damage aura kills them (Seraph/IB), or they die of exhaustion (ES))
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Kharn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what I gather from this is that Eternal Soldiers suck, is that correct?

Edit: yes, yes that is correct.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if it's a bug or if the wiki is just mistaken, but the upgraded duration on Guardian Stance is 50 ticks, not 30.
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MerlintheTuna
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kharn wrote:
So what I gather from this is that Eternal Soldiers suck, is that correct?

Edit: yes, yes that is correct.

Some of that is likely intentional. I may be extrapolating too much from the old NW days, but the design mentality back then was that the ES is (A) the "Super Mortal" class, and (B) the low-maintenance, low-complexity class. That basically led to the NC getting cooler skills and better numbers if you were willing to pay attention to your morality, with the intent of the ES being effective if you're just looking to pick up and play. (YMMV if you feel that that balance point was well-considered or well-executed, but that was how I understood the intent. I do agree that they need a stronger identity.)

I will say that I disagree regarding Master of Endurance's uselessness. The HP boost is minor, but as someone who isn't micromanaging every AP, it basically nets me 5 more actions per day that would otherwise be lost to the cap. That's pretty handy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kharn wrote:
So what I gather from this is that Eternal Soldiers suck, is that correct?

Edit: yes, yes that is correct.


Eternal Soldier isn't bad, its just kinda weird.
Eternal Soldier lacks any super cool signature abilities (aside from way of fire), but their defense is good, if somewhat worse then seraph and behemoth defense. They can do ranged damage almost on par with Divine Herald damage, and eternal soldier gun damage ignores soak.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a new player who's focused much more on roleplay than character optimization. I knew Eternal Soldier was the class for me right off. Not only is it the only class that can master firearms, but it's a class that doesn't gain power from an external source. (Longshot might be a goody-goody, but his talents were always drawn from self-disipline and training. And his friends, but that's not getting represented in mechanics.)

Basically what I'm saying is, I know little about what other class can do, but I can tell you exactly why ES appeals to me. I'll stick to the mechanics here, though.

They lack anything flashy, but in defense department Way of Earth makes them tough, but more than that they're the least likely class to get hit in the first place. Between Way of Water, Master of Flow, and the Myrmidon skill Super Reflexes, every single attack has a -30 to hit.

On offense, Way of Fire is their one flashy move and I imagine you longer term players can see how it compares to ther classes much better, but more importantly then can add +6 damage to every nonspell attack. Every single one, no extra AP or MP cost. And if you go the firearms route, your attacks ignore immunities and resistances. (Sorry EagleWiz, soak is actually the one thing not ignored.)

So basically, the ES is always 'on.' It might not be able to reach quite the heights of other classes, but the only thing an ES has to worry about running out of is AP.
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SocialJusticeWarrior
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longshot wrote:
the only thing an ES has to worry about running out of is AP.

And ammo. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longshot wrote:
I'm a new player who's focused much more on roleplay than character optimization.

I like you already. Welcome!


Longshot wrote:
I knew Eternal Soldier was the class for me right off. Not only is it the only class that can master firearms, but it's a class that doesn't gain power from an external source. (Longshot might be a goody-goody, but his talents were always drawn from self-disipline and training. And his friends, but that's not getting represented in mechanics.)

Basically what I'm saying is, I know little about what other class can do, but I can tell you exactly why ES appeals to me. I'll stick to the mechanics here, though.

They lack anything flashy, but in defense department Way of Earth makes them tough, but more than that they're the least likely class to get hit in the first place. Between Way of Water, Master of Flow, and the Myrmidon skill Super Reflexes, every single attack has a -30 to hit.

True. A high defense stat isn't that flashy, and I can see how it can be off-putting to some people. I'm glad you caught that the Eternal Soldier gets their skills from themselves and their own training. Think of an ES like an action hero you see in a movie, right down to their high defense score. How many times have we seen Bruce Willis or Arnold Schwarzenegger get in a gun fight against 20+ other dudes, and not one goon managed to actually hit them? However, this image inherently makes it difficult to really give them anything flashy. they're action heroes, not super-heroes.

Now, we do have plans to eventually give the Eternal Soldier a damage aura. Basically, when someone gets to close to them the ES simply smacks their attacker, dealing some impact damage. But again, a damage aura isn't flashy so I'm open to suggestions.


Longshot wrote:
On offense, Way of Fire is their one flashy move and I imagine you longer term players can see how it compares to ther classes much better, but more importantly then can add +6 damage to every nonspell attack. Every single one, no extra AP or MP cost. And if you go the firearms route, your attacks ignore immunities and resistances. (Sorry EagleWiz, soak is actually the one thing not ignored.)

So basically, the ES is always 'on.' It might not be able to reach quite the heights of other classes, but the only thing an ES has to worry about running out of is AP.


This is pretty much what we were going for; "always on". It used to be thought of as a 'fire and forget' class, a simple design with mostly passive skills you don't need to worry about turning on or saving MP for. The thing is, as above, passive effects aren't really that flashy. I'm not sure the ES really needs to be flashy, but it does need reasons to make it an attractive class to play.
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Longshot
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SocialJusticeWarrior wrote:
And ammo. Wink


Er, well yes. But between Gunsmith and Master of Munitions, I foresee that being a minor annoyance at best. Espcially since Way of the Fasthands gives me free reloads as long as I'm carrying any extra.

Teksura wrote:
I like you already. Welcome!


Yeah, that seems to get good responses from everyone around here. A good sign, I think.

Teksura wrote:
This is pretty much what we were going for; "always on". It used to be thought of as a 'fire and forget' class, a simple design with mostly passive skills you don't need to worry about turning on or saving MP for. The thing is, as above, passive effects aren't really that flashy. I'm not sure the ES really needs to be flashy, but it does need reasons to make it an attractive class to play.


Oh, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was acknowledging the fact that while others might look down on ES, Kharm's comment about them being sucky promted my post after all, their advantage lies in the fact that they trade anything really eye catching for simply being solid all the time. The amount of maintenance they require depends solely on their choice of weapon. Martial artist Eternal Soldiers could forgo any items at all, wander the Nexus solo and still be threatening. And firearms, the weapon type that requires the most upkeep in the finding and reloading of ammo, both get mitigated down to the level of 'negligible'.

The lack of flash wasn't a criticism. Not from me at least. Trading flash for low maintenance is exactly why I was attracted to the class in the first place. My post was just a call to look past the 'best case scenerio' numbers presented in the summary here. Don't get me wrong, Eagle did great, but if you want to see why ES shines, you have to look at the worst case scenerio numbers. For every other class there's a drop, sometimes a big one. For ES, the only thing you lose is Way of Fire. Everything else is just the same.

Like I was trying to imply, I'm just working off numbers and the image in my head. I don't have any actual experience with going up against others in-game. But I think what makes ES appealing is pretty appearant.
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RaelCleap
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Joined: May 09, 2015
Posts: 1074

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teksura wrote:

True. A high defense stat isn't that flashy, and I can see how it can be off-putting to some people. I'm glad you caught that the Eternal Soldier gets their skills from themselves and their own training. Think of an ES like an action hero you see in a movie, right down to their high defense score. How many times have we seen Bruce Willis or Arnold Schwarzenegger get in a gun fight against 20+ other dudes, and not one goon managed to actually hit them? However, this image inherently makes it difficult to really give them anything flashy. they're action heroes, not super-heroes.

Now, we do have plans to eventually give the Eternal Soldier a damage aura. Basically, when someone gets to close to them the ES simply smacks their attacker, dealing some impact damage. But again, a damage aura isn't flashy so I'm open to suggestions.


On the note on the damage aura for the ES that Teksura was talking about. Before I start I would just like to say I love the ES, it is a very easy pick up and play character. But I do agree compared to other classes they need just a little more umph in the tank department, while making them a little different at this task at the same time.

How about a damage aura based off the environment.

Ambush Survival, Way of Adaptation.

So the ES uses furniture and cover in their environment for its soak. So base reduction of all damage types of 2 when inside a building (cos of conjunction with way of earth).

And damage could reflect quick ambushes of kicks, shots, slashes. Damage aura 6 of a Random type: 45% Impact, 30% Slashing, 25% Piercing (all numbers just suggestions)

The child skills could be bonus's to / change to a certain weapon type the reflection.

Gun Retaliation: Piercing aura type, +1 damage to aura and hits targets that attack you at range only. Reflecting returning fire at an enemy firing on you.

Martial Arts Master: Impact aura type, +2 damage to aura, +5% dodge. Melee reflect only. BRUCE LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OUAAARRRRGH!

Blade Specialist: Slashing Aura type, +1 damage to aura that minus's 2 soak against slashing weapon type. Melee reflect only. Picking out the weaknesses in their opponents armor.

Three child skills in all for people to choose there reflection type, if you get more than one, it lets you choose/toggle which reflection type you wish to have active.

This idea tries to reflect the action hero style game play . It also tries to add a little flavor to the aura that isn't magic induced, but environmental and psychical. Allowing you to select which aura type you have when you log out, or tactically switching between auras in real time raids. If you invest in the child skills.

I don't believe any other class has an aura they can toggle for different effects. Niche?
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