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I am convinced of Wozzy's innocence. Unvote Wozzy. I vote Pikanchion because we need to put pressure on him to talk.
Is this in response to my post? I am not sure whether to ask some questions.
It's not so much in response to your post. I reckoned Wozzy was innocent once he voted for Skoffin, but I wanted to wait for something incriminating from other posters. So far, no luck, and with Skoffin having two votes against him I thought it would be more useful to apply pressure elsewhere.
EDIT: Some input on Skoffin. I think it's possible Skoffin is a scapegoat, considering Yukari and Wozzy as innocents. A tie is great news for scum, and they would not break a tie unless one of the suspects were a demon. If we give Skoffin the benefit of this doubt, this means that either Hataka or you, Aidan are scum. I shudder at the prospect that you are scum, but you have been playing suspiciously well for a dumb angel. I'm not completely sure about all this, just putting it out there. We can't just assume the discussion's leader is innocent, after all.
EDIT EDIT: And yes, I know my actions right now are looking very scummy. Sorry for that.
Joined: Apr 22, 2010 Posts: 363 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:00 am Post subject:
Alright, I'll be responding to Aidan here. I've broken it into parts.
Aidan wrote:
Skoffin has been a very good player throughout this game. His D1 reason for not voting Yukari was what kept my vote off the Yuka for most of D2. Thanks a lot for that.
On the other side of the coin, he seems to have missed the fact that Lagn even exists in the game. His D2 take on Lagn was a null, and his starting post on D3 makes me feel like he is trying to pin a fast one on Wozzy.
Dubious tell, but I can't shake off his displeasure when he discovered that town can discuss the game outside the thread. Having played as scum in a game with town daytalk, I know what a nasty surprise that is.
I will concur with you on that point about Lagn. Honestly, for some reason for most of the game I seem to have been viewing Lagn and Shadok as the same person. I'm not sure why I did at the time.
What D3 post about wozzy are you referring to? I've had little interested in wozzy and was going for Hataka, and then ending up making the deciding vote on Yuka. What ''fast on''e on wozzy are you talking about?
I find it strange you mention that considering at the time *you agreed with me*. It bothers me because no game I have ever played has allowed such a thing. I used to play and moderate on a site called Epicmafia and such action was considered cheating and I used to have to ban people for it. So no I am not comfortable with it.
Quote:
So for my reason for voting Skoffin.
His votes have been non-useful.
He doesn't appear to have commented on Shad's response (which he has supposedly been waiting for), eventually jumping on Yuka-wagon from Hataka-wagon.
He has mostly just agreed with people (his limited personal contributions have mostly cleared people, not thrown additional suspicion on anyone that hasn't yet been lynched).
Plus, he just makes a damn awesome scumpartner for the remaining two suspects, though that's admittedly not a good tell
I might change this vote depending on what Skoffin does in response, a response I curiously await.
We can't deem all my votes being 'non-useful' as yet as we do not yet know the roles of some of the people I have suspected. We have not actually lynched anyone that I have actually wanted to go for.
If we are going to go the non-useful route you can take a turn at wozzy, pika and hataka for their lack of usefulness throughout the game. A
You can't claim I haven't tried to be useful for this town and I call bollocks on that assertion.
Which Shad response? I ultimately couldn't argue his points, and of the pair yuka seemed more dubious than wozzy did. I switched from the hataka vote because I was not interested in another case of the lynch being decided by random selection instead of by town and you lot seemed determined to stick to the chosen pair, and those that were not determined had no interest in saying anything.
No, people have agreed with me. You agreed with me that army did not seem like a demon, others agreed with me on hataka. I'm not 'following' anyone here. And again, I was on hataka for quite a while so your claim that I "haven't thrown additional suspicion on anyone that hasn't already been lynched" is complete nonsense.
I would also like to point out that while stating you believe someone is town is not as useful as making a case of why someone is scum, it is still fairly useful in itself. Figuring out who is likely town does in fact help narrow things down.
And I would just like to go back here a sec:
Quote:
I think I am going to start by looking at Wozzy and considering him a townie. Buddy mentality is almost a given for scum in a game in which they are outnumbered and almost outpowered, but I have yet to see him support a wagon started by one of the others, and I honestly think him to be the VI that I suspected back in D1. Some gut involvement.
You say you think wozzy is an angel, and we know yuka is an angel. I was not keen on voting on either of these chaps and stayed up through the night hoping that *anyone* would come in and do something so that we could go for someone else. Exactly what did I gain here by avoiding that lynch?
I thought for a second that you had voted for Wozzy in your D3 post (the only other one today), but apparently, you just quoted him. I feel like a complete idiot since I had kept this 'vote' in mind when rereading the thread. Ugh.
My mistrust towards players who are very good at discovering townies is somewhat justified, since _scum_ is best at 'deciphering' such 'towntells'. As scum, you would _know_ that Armykid is a townie (and I like to think that my reason for clearing him was more logical than yours, no offense).
You are right about your suspicions of Hataka, and now I think of it, you could actually have just not voted D2 at all. The fact that you did, coupled with my original misreading of your post as a vote on Wozzy, means my argument is null.
Your explanations make complete sense, to the point where I might say I am forced to Unvote Skoffin. It throws a spanner in my beautiful theory that you _must_ be a part of the scumpair, but I don't really want to risk murdering someone so Paladin-y at this point.
I'd like Lagn and Pika to comment on my post, since it also talks about them.
Lagn, as Pika said, you need to clarify what your vote on him is intended to do, since he posted an analysis of everyone left in his first post today. I also find it strange that you apparently find Skoffin suspicious enough to FoS, but not vote? _________________ For the Kin!
I'd like Lagn and Pika to comment on my post, since it also talks about them.
Lagn, as Pika said, you need to clarify what your vote on him is intended to do, since he posted an analysis of everyone left in his first post today. I also find it strange that you apparently find Skoffin suspicious enough to FoS, but not vote?
I am no longer suspicious of Skoffin, I you haven't noticed. If Skoffin were scum he wouldn't have needed to vote to lynch, since it's clear Skoffin and Wozzy aren't scum buddies, and it's clear Wozzy isn't scum as a result. Thus I do not vote Skoffin. I voted Pika because he has the weakest alibis and I am suspicious of his voting- why vote Hataka?
Pika remains difficult to read. His conclusions on D3 seem fine to me. He has done his share of scummy things, however. Looking at today, he apparently finds Lagn sus and then votes for Hataka _again_. Seriously?
Pikanchion wrote:
Hataka on the other hand has made only one vote per day, both have been made against people with little explanation, both were made against people who had already been voted against by others. Jumping straight on the first vote this morning was not a good sign.
Yukari I'm not sure about, the first thing they said today is in my eyes simply ploy to who else would vote with you, and Hataka took that bait. The follow up switch vote would make them both being demons highly unlikely (and outright reckless on their part), but the chances of one of them being so are reasonable.
My reasoning yesterday still stands as far as I can tell, and is I would say bolstered by Hataka's only post today, which basically goes "I'm suspicious of these two (because they both voted Yukari), but I'm not going to vote for anybody until a wagon appears for me to jump on."
Aidan, if "he apparently finds Lagn sus and then votes for Hataka" is referring specifically to "But I'm also far more wary of Lagn." then this is simply a matter of colloquial omission, I'm far more wary of Lagn today than I was yesterday not I'm far more wary of Lagn than of Hataka. I think there's a fair chance of them being the demon pair even after the initial voting yesterday, but in the end I can only vote for one of them. _________________ My Characters
Joined: Apr 22, 2010 Posts: 363 Location: Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:02 am Post subject:
I am just going to rattle off my thoughts as they come to me:
First up, I get the impression we do not have a great scumteam. This would rule out both scum being good players, so by default lagn and aidan cannot both be mafia. So either it's one good mafia and one bad mafia, or two mafia. I would place aidan and lagn in the camp of potential good mafia and hataka/pika/wozzy on the side of potential bad mafia.
Something that puzzles me about aidan though, he went for Shadok and after Shad's response quickly dropped the case. He just did the same on me. I don't think I've ever actually seen someone do that.
Then we've got Wozzy, who ignored the case against him and chose to do nothing and hope it went away. His first actions today were to bandwagon me and he did so because I did not vote him yesterday.
One thing that plays in my mind is this: are we as a town so bad that we have not selected to lynch even one mafia this whole time? I don't really think that is statistically likely, and based on some of his strange behaviour, I think there is a good chance wozzy was actually the correct choice that we should have made yesterday. So for now I will vote wozzy and I would like to see what he has to say, and I do not want him to avoid the issue this time.
Joined: Apr 22, 2010 Posts: 363 Location: Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject:
Aidan, you made a remark on IRC last night about how you showed wozzy. I was wondering if you could elaborate on all your reasons for thinking that is the case, as so far I don't see any reason with enough justification.
Aidan, you made a remark on IRC last night about how you showed wozzy.
So I am a little drunk, but this sentence still doesn't make sense to me after reading it 4-5 times, Aidan showed Wozzy..? _________________ My Characters
Firstly, the fact that he didn't vote Yukari D2, since I would have expected scum not to take the risk. Of course, it _is_ possible that Wozzy didn't want all the suspicion to fall on him D3, but really, he was _this_ close to getting lynched and he could have cited any number of reasons for voting Yuki.
Secondly, the fact that he hasn't supported any of the major bandwagons in the game so far. This can potentially be scum trying to slip past the radar, but Wozzy's alternate vote choices, if anything, have attracted way more attention to him than a wagon vote would (you can see that when I voted him D1 and D2).
Thirdly, because my gut feels that he is a newbie, and hasn't made some of the mistakes newbscum make. However, I just saw his post in Single Night Werewolf, and now I am not so sure.
Also, in IRC, you told me that you were more suspicious of Hataka. Interesting to see a Wozzy vote.
-----
Your reason for voting Wozzy is somewhat silly, no offense. There have been seven wagons so far.
D1, we had a Lagn wagon, a Whytemeet wagon and an Armykid wagon.
D2, we had a Hataka wagon, a Wozzy wagon and a Yukari wagon.
D3, we had a Skoffin-wagon.
This really means Lagn, Hataka, Wozzy and Skoffin are all 'statistically likely' to be scum (using your logic that it is statistically unlikely for town to never have wagoned on scum), which gets us nowhere. _________________ For the Kin!
Joined: Apr 22, 2010 Posts: 363 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:11 am Post subject:
Thing is though is that he has been actively ignoring the entire situation.
He was around yesterday but chose to say nothing, and he has been posting around today and is still not here. He is letting you put up his defence for him.
I don't really think his vote choices seem innocent either. He's been rather aloof and been flying under the radar, and today his first action was to bandwagon vote me (for the most bizarre of reasons) and again he has not come back here since. He is lurking to the extreme.
He does seem newbie, but whether that is newbie scum or town is still up for debate in my mind. Add in his comments elsewhere, that you just referred to, about wanting someone to act so the game can get moving, while he is not moving this game along and well, it just seems sus all round.
I was voting hataka previously, but that was before all this stuff with wozzy seemed dubious. I would really like to see what he has to say.
---
I was meaning bandwgons that were in the likelihood of happening. The Hataka one I didn't count as it wasn't happening and it was lead by me. But I see your point.
Alrighty, sorry about my absence for the last 48 hours. I have been following along though.
Speaking frankly, this is my first game of something of this kind. I know I made a ton of mistakes, from D1 trying to hide under the radar (resulting in the death of our two important guys), to D2, with my outlandish suspicions and almost 0 effort in deciding between our main suspects. So, I'd like to apologise first for being a newbie, but hey, we all gotta start somewhere. If anything is true about me, it's this paragraph.
Now, back to the game. Unvote Skoffin That wasn't a fair suspicion, I know that scum would have just let the tie stay, since they had nothing to lose. Stillm that might be what you wanted people to think, using your explanation of wanting to choose the lesser of two evils when everyone else gave up to justify your claim.
With that eliminated, it leaves the 4 of Pika, Lagn, Hataka, and Aiden.
Pika was my first suspicion, just from my gut I felt he was hiding under the radar while his teammate was doing the dirty work.
Lagn was my second suspicion, but that was because I thought he was working with Pika. It doesn't seem as likely now, but it is still possible he might be working with another scum-buddy.
Hataka has been missing for a while now. Not really sure if they've given up, or are laying low because the game is in the bag.
Aiden...My only reason for suspicion is because he is obviously pretty good at this game. I'm not able to read tells at all, so this intimidates me.
Basically what I'm saying is that I really don't know who to vote for anymore, you are all equally scum and town in my newbro eyes.
Under the radar? In the bag? Please, I could never even pretend to be that sneaky here, I was just trying to see what everyone else was saying and make my decision based on that. All I want is for us Paladins to win. I know that seems very demonic, Pika-san said that I basically said that I was waiting for a bandwagon? Maybe it will turn out that way again, maybe I will just vote very late on near the end.
Whatever the case, you can sling your grand words and arguments at one another, my words could hardly compare and I would bring no new information anyways, my brothers you have analyzed our plight quite well. All I can do is to be persuaded, and eventually bring my bloody vote into the fray.
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