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Nexus Clash :: View topic - Imbalance of wisp form.
My apologies - I thought that someone from the team had already publically detailed the intended changes and that they were coming ASAP. Clearly I was wrong, and I should have made a post earlier.
We are changing Wisp Form so that pets act like they are on Defensive in their interactions with wisp formed Conduits, which brings the skill in line with its intended uses and the similar skills from classes with the same role as the Conduit. In making this decision the development team discussed this matter internally, in addition to reading the discussion in this thread.
Achieving this outcome involves making two changes to pet behaviour and Wisp Form.
The first change has been made as of today:
* Pets that are retaliating to an attack will now attack the wisp formed Conduit instead of ignoring them
The second change has yet to be made:
* After retaliating to an attack from a wisp formed Conduit, the retaliating pets will consider them a valid target in subsequent regular pet ticks
The first change is currently in effect, and the second change will be implemented this weekend. I will post again when the second change is made, and there will be an ingame announcement pointing it out along with the launch of the second part of the Halloween event.
So... If you're gonna launch a nerf to a skill mid-breath, which wasn't even a bug or game breaking, you guys should at least holler up with an announcement once you do. Kinda frells up people who, y'know, use the skill :v
Just saying...
Yep pretty friggin rude way to find out. Already noticed a number of liches standing outside with..... impunity.
Erm, Naaa, nuffin' a good tank can't deal with. Yanno, as retsamajnin said on page 3 of this thread, try traditional aura tanking. The conduit is rather good at it!
So... If you're gonna launch a nerf to a skill mid-breath, which wasn't even a bug or game breaking, you guys should at least holler up with an announcement once you do. Kinda frells up people who, y'know, use the skill :v
Just saying...
Yep pretty friggin rude way to find out. Already noticed a number of liches standing outside with..... impunity.
Erm, Naaa, nuffin' a good tank can't deal with. Yanno, as retsamajnin said on page 3 of this thread, try traditional aura tanking. The conduit is rather good at it!
Whether there is a viable tactic (or not) to counter said changes is not the point Yukari is trying to make. The point is about admin/devs giving players appropriate notice to significant changes to a skill before they make said change.
So... If you're gonna launch a nerf to a skill mid-breath, which wasn't even a bug or game breaking, you guys should at least holler up with an announcement once you do. Kinda frells up people who, y'know, use the skill :v
Just saying...
Yep pretty friggin rude way to find out. Already noticed a number of liches standing outside with..... impunity.
Erm, Naaa, nuffin' a good tank can't deal with. Yanno, as retsamajnin said on page 3 of this thread, try traditional aura tanking. The conduit is rather good at it!
Whether there is a viable tactic (or not) to counter said changes is not the point Yukari is trying to make. The point is about admin/devs giving players appropriate notice to significant changes to a skill before they make said change.
A change shadok told them was coming. Also they got killed most prob's trying to abuse the skill against said Lich (Yanno, not using the skill as it was intended) I have no sympathy for that.
Oh the abuse of the skill I was using got me killed when it was fixed. You shouldn't have been abusing the skill in the first place, even after Shadok, in this thread warned everyone twice that the FIX was coming, so the skill worked as it was always intended.
There was plenty of warning. However an anouncment I agree should have been made, but Rince already stated why he didn't at first.
Also at Yukari; It was a bug, it was not functioning as intended and yes it was game breaking, it was killing with impunity (unlike sacs comment above whitch to be honest, most battle mages and tanks and the conduit can STILL kill the Lich, so no impunity there by definition, as vengence can be served) and the broken function was told to us in the second post of the thread.
Shadok wrote:
As the creator of the Conduit, this is not what wisp is meant to be used for. Wisp is meant to turn pets defensive, not passive. Attacking a pet should get your face mauled in. King is definitely not using wisp as it was intended to be used.
Oh well. That's what happens with balance. You have to keep tweaking it.
You didn't "Use" the skill, you "Abused" it! I kind of find it funny that you died trying to abuse it after the first change. It also brings me to the point I made earlier.
The only people who are going to complain about this "FIX" are the ones who abused the broken, unintentional effect of the skill. That is the bare bones of it. If you take a breath and step back, you can still nuke a PM and tank it, it just takes a little more effort...
LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
When it was anounced in this thread twice, that it wasn't working as it should do (by dev's), THAT, is when you should have thought and stopped abusing the skill as you knew ithe FIX was coming. To keep using the skill after this knowledge in its broken fashion was tempting fate and the result of death was bound to happen.
Just saying... _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Cleaver, they're complaining that they weren't told the change was live. Which is fair enough, and which, while I can't speak for the rest of the dev team obviously, I feel those of us in IRC at the time kinda messed up on a bit. So yeah.
Secondly - that quote from Shadok comes across as it being an unintended use, not a bug. There's a difference between bugs and balance changes - removing the DBS was a balance change, but its synergy with Wizards wasn't a bug. It's probably fair for the conduits to expect their skill to still do as expected until told that a patch is live.
Thirdly - This thread should probably be locked :/
Carful RaelCleap, if you get anymore smug, your face will get stuck that way.
The use of this skill in the "petkilling" way was never outright claimed to be abuse; in fact, this thread actually might have caused more Conduits to try it out.
To the rest of you, the devs should have made an announcement to the changes, but they didn't. W/e, they're only human, just respawn and move on.
There's no meaningful difference between "use" and "abuse" unless policy has already been vocally established. The standard should also be "is this detrimental to the game" and not "was this intended," otherwise you lose out on all kinds of emergent behavior and interactions that work for the good of the game.
You didn't "Use" the skill, you "Abused" it! I kind of find it funny that you died trying to abuse it after the first change. It also brings me to the point I made earlier.
The only people who are going to complain about this "FIX" are the ones who abused the broken, unintentional effect of the skill. That is the bare bones of it. If you take a breath and step back, you can still nuke a PM and tank it, it just takes a little more effort...
LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
I don't think this was abuse at all. Someone was just clever enough to think of a creative way to use the skill.
Granted, after complaints, it has been deemed "detrimental to the game" and has been adjusted, but I do not think that any conduit using the skill this way had any intention of abusing anything. They were using the skills they had and were thinking out of the box. Kudos to them for being so smart!
Innovative thinking is a good thing, in my opinion. And, even if it has unintended results or reveals a alleged weakness in a part of the game, it's an important part of the game's evolution.
A change shadok told them was coming. Also they got killed most prob's trying to abuse the skill against said Lich (Yanno, not using the skill as it was intended) I have no sympathy for that.
If you're referring to Shadok's post in the second page of this thread which was dated Oct 27, 2015 and calling people who purchased the skill way before that abusing it. Then we should call those who played liches Bug Abusers before the Ghoul regen was patched.
You are calling players who use this skill to kill a PM and their pets abusers of the skill that was around for three years and were not deemed broken nor a bug for that whole time span.
Quote:
The only people who are going to complain about this "FIX" are the ones who abused the broken, unintentional effect of the skill. That is the bare bones of it. If you take a breath and step back, you can still nuke a PM and tank it, it just takes a little more effort...
LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
If somehow Sires pet gets changed so it doesn't grant XP to it's owner in the near future, you will be added to that list of abuser with the same reasoning that you're using. I can actually call you out on abusing the credit mechanics and paying people to come to you for easy XP but no it doesn't really work like that so I will not.
Quote:
When it was anounced in this thread twice, that it wasn't working as it should do (by dev's), THAT, is when you should have thought and stopped abusing the skill as you knew ithe FIX was coming. To keep using the skill after this knowledge in its broken fashion was tempting fate and the result of death was bound to happen.
Never assume that the only people playing the game are those active in this Forum and those in #clash. Not everyone has the time nor the energy to metagame this shit everyday.
I suggest you take a deep breath yourself like your response and think about this more.
The skill has been around give or take 3 years and in 3 days you're calling the people who's been used to how the skill has been working abusive...seriously.
I suggest you take a deep breath yourself like your response and think about this more.
Just Sayin.
I would like to fill in some context here.
I have!
The reason for the post initially was after a full on lynching as an upset PM in IRC for brining it up.
I spoke to Repth after he aprouched me here in private message about it.
I said at the time I didn't want to get involved in such a "FAVORED" and yes in my eyes "ABUSED / imbalance" skill. For the fact that after such a disrespectful Lynching, where my intelligence was called into question, I was deliberately wound up by those people poking fun at the concern and after a few dozen insults I left after the statement.
"It does what it is supossed to do. Deal with it and respawn." Paraphrased of corse.
So I made the first post in very upset anger, and it reads that way.
I told Repth in my discussion it would play out like that and why I didn't want to be involved in making the post. I'd rather just play! I also said the same thing after Shad' approuched me after posting this thread, ask them?
On the lack of tact or complaint of, where was my tact when I tried to discuss it in IRC? I was quite upset about the situation to the point of thinking about just rerolling my PM's or walking away, I am still considering re-rolling my WM's for sure. My Lich I am still undecided.
There was no tact, in fact it was a free for all, with a lot of jibes and put downs and generally people making fun of me for having a very valid Balance concern coverd in this thread.
Aidan acctually tried to speak to me about it while it was happening. I also said it was playing out exactly as I expected it would.
Yes my aprouch was tactless and blunt, but why should it have been anything less. Those who poked fun and put me down, disrespected and belittled the issue are the ones complaining now.
All I can say is Pot-Kettle-Black, the shoe is on the other foot and I have been tactful to a certain degree as I have in no way been as viscous as a lot of the IRC community was on me initially brining it up!
Context.
I agree, lock the thread... _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Last edited by RaelCleap on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
LOL you call me on "abusing" a skill that has been working that way YEARS before you came here (admittedly, never fixed or resolved due a miscommunication error), yet you're the person who puts 3 Sires' pets in the different tiles of the same library and say that's not abuse... smh
You call it "blunt and tactless", but like I told you through PMs, it actually comes out as childish and whiny. And no, I'm not saying this with the intention to insult, it's the objective assessment I've done of every single bit of conversation I've seen you do EVER. You should really take that to heart and a good long look at yourself.
I'm done, last post or pm I dedicate to you. ttfn.
Yet justified as the change is comming! you can hate me for that sure, or dismiss and troll me for it.
But 3 chars a cell apart is not abuse and within the rules, as well as the fact they where out in the open waiting to die for a competition.
I also couldn't give two F's on what you think of me or my character.
But ok to respond: I feel you think that of anyone with a differance of oppinion. At least from my experiance.
Sure I am emotional and say how I feel, meh. If you don't like that, do what you say you are going to do in your very personal attacking quote.
No loss to me. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Last edited by RaelCleap on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:56 am; edited 2 times in total
I would like to formally ask the mods/admins to do their job and shut this thread down. The debate has ended and it's devolving fast.
Thank you for your consideration.
I agree, lock the thread. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
I would like to formally ask the mods/admins to do their job and shut this thread down. The debate has ended and it's devolving fast.
Thank you for your consideration.
Unfortunately, a quick glance at the forum usergroups that are actually capable of locking a thread in this forum is limited to about 4 people. This thread is going far off track and the issue is effectively resolved.
Functionally, this thread is closed and I strongly discourage any further posts.
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