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Invun, soak + abiilities makes everyone a sudo tank if they wanna be. That is why.
Actually, you need more then just Invun potions and armor to be a sudo tank. You also need affinity potions, some type of aura, and a Linux operating system, and even then your going to take quite a bit of damage.
What I don't understand is: Why would a feral petmaster need a truckload of pets?
Invun, soak + abiilities makes everyone a sudo tank if they wanna be. That is why.
Was your answer directed at this question, or something else in my post?
If yes: as I said, apart from few special cases (invis VW, Fallen, anyone who hides smartly) sleeping outside = Waking up dead. No amount of pets is going to change that, and that's good - You aren't supposed to survive outside, you're supposed to be food for other ferals/hunters.
If it was directed at this:
Quote:
If you have enough Petmasters to summon 100 pets, then why couldn't they drop their pets down to, say, total of 25?
please see the previous sentence: If 1 prepped raider can take down a hundred pets, then maybe you don't need a hundred, maybe 20 or 25 are enough for any of those un-prepared raiders, should those happen by?
Also, let's be honest here: You argued that high MP costs keep petmasters pinned to the SH. You also argued that pets are irrelevant as raid defense (against prepped raiders). If pet costs were halved, would you:
A. really still have the same amount of pets, but use the leftover MP and AP to hunt instead? or
B. Have double the amount of pets, and still be pinned to the SH?
No amount of pets is going to be impossible to kill, so why try to hoard a huge horde, when you can live a bit more freely?
Summon a Wrackwyrm, hunt with it, and use left over MP to summon one or two hellhounds when you get back home, instead of trying to keep up 5 netherhounds "as defense" - Both set-ups are going to slow a prepared raid team down by the same amount of time and resources. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
What I don't understand is: Why would a feral petmaster need a truckload of pets?
Invun, soak + abiilities makes everyone a sudo tank if they wanna be. That is why.
Was your answer directed at this question, or something else in my post?
If yes: as I said, apart from few special cases (invis VW, Fallen, anyone who hides smartly) sleeping outside = Waking up dead. No amount of pets is going to change that, and that's good - You aren't supposed to survive outside, you're supposed to be food for other ferals/hunters.
If it was directed at this:
Quote:
If you have enough Petmasters to summon 100 pets, then why couldn't they drop their pets down to, say, total of 25?
please see the previous sentence: If 1 prepped raider can take down a hundred pets, then maybe you don't need a hundred, maybe 20 or 25 are enough for any of those un-prepared raiders, should those happen by?
Also, let's be honest here: You argued that high MP costs keep petmasters pinned to the SH. You also argued that pets are irrelevant as raid defense (against prepped raiders). If pet costs were halved, would you:
A. really still have the same amount of pets, but use the leftover MP and AP to hunt instead? or
B. Have double the amount of pets, and still be pinned to the SH?
No amount of pets is going to be impossible to kill, so why try to hoard a huge horde, when you can live a bit more freely?
Summon a Wrackwyrm, hunt with it, and use left over MP to summon one or two hellhounds when you get back home, instead of trying to keep up 5 netherhounds "as defense" - Both set-ups are going to slow a prepared raid team down by the same amount of time and resources.
Look at the Lich, 4 to 5 pets off its base mp and your off hunting, you can maintain a horde of ten with moderate ease of JUST the ghoul. Or die farming a little xp feral camping.
WM / LS can they do that? Can they do it as well as the Lich...
No because of hunting pet MP costs. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Look at the Lich, 4 to 5 pets off its base mp and your off hunting, you can maintain a horde of ten with moderate ease of JUST the ghoul.
WM / LS can they do that?
I think the correct question isn't "can" they do that, but rather:
Do they need to do that?
Why would they need to do that? _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
I don't mind dieing as a feral, that is not the issue, its the speed at which a pm can re-Group and hunt after death that I am discussing.
Which is comparable to Certain Pets MP costs. Which certain pets pin PM's to the spot because of there MP costs.
Its why I used the Ghouls MP cost / damage / hp / mp as an example for mp cost, even without its raise dead skill, it is a superior pet for the fact of three reasons.
1. Good mundane damage
2. MP cost for what you get ap/hp/mp wise in the pet.
3. Its mp cost allows a quick pick up and play horde after death that's why it is more efficiently built than a WM/LS pets because of its cheap MP cost of its hunting pet, the Ghoul.
The model in number three should be replicated for fast recovery and allow ability for the AP to do other things, just like other classes. Like badge farming.
Being killed is not the issue, its the recovery time through PM MP costs of pets on WM / LS that is the issue.
I'm not asking for the power of any of the pets to change, just for the costs inn mp to be lowered to allow three things.
1.Fast recovery after death so they can hunt more often or do other things EG: badge grind. Rather than pinned to the SH summoning.
2. Quicker rebuild of faction defense v feral's. Making repeated raids against the SH less frustrating. Encourages more raiding through faster recovery.
3. The option of being feral as a pm efficiently while retaining the option of varied pet horde. Which pinning high MP costs / maintenance of certain pets stop.
Those reasons. If you got faster recovery and the pets where weakened slightly if necessary, it would give the option of both feral and faction PM's.
I agree, nothing will change in the redundancy of the pet horde v a prepped raid team, so let the PM have the ability to hunt a little more frequently through "A similar" recovery / pick up and play style of MP pet costs as the Lich. Or swifter downed faction recovery pet defense v feral's, again like the Lich.
Or the option just to be a functioning feral PM. Without pinning effects through summoning MP costs being to High. That would encourage a more varied horde. The reason why I think wight MP cost is the only pet issue on Lich.
Skeleton could use a little love too on second thought, so again lower the damage a little and the mp cost, so you get more for your base MP.
Or rejuv' on kill added to Bone Seeker , that would make skeletons more attractive. Lower base Hp to the pet to accommodate the change.
Then, and this is the big one... Cap horde size of certain pets, so it discourages camping in a SH, pinned in repetitive play.
EG max horde of ghouls a lich can summon = 10. (Gain another 10 only through there raise dead ability cap max ghoul horde at 20)
Max horde of skeletons a lich can summon= 10 (bone sword can gain you an additional 10, making max skele' horde of 20)
In this example of Ghoul / Skele' it encourages some form of feral farming to get max horde size, eg: getting people out the SH! For gain and reward, while hunting.
Max number of wights 6.
Max will-o-wisps 10
Encourage the horde synergy, Rather than camp, summon one type of pet repeat. While balancing PM horde side by doing thus. It could even be condensed to less summons per Lich than above.
A system like 3 x skeletons = 1 fossil, should be applied to other titan pets too.
EG: 2 x horrid Tentacle as an example to summon Wrackworm.
The above concepts would actually address anti-pet complaints to. Especially in regards to Hordes that are to big ect (LS feeding Lich as an example). While also making the PM's a lot more fun, rewarding an element of hunting for best faction defense. Or just fast pick up and play after death style like all none pm classes, while adding a desire to use other pets than just Ghoul.
Concept the same in regard to the other PM's, MP costs for pets, horde cap and horde gain ability, to encourage some sh camping and more hunting to reach optimum horde capacity. While retaining the fast start / die method of feral play if desired by the player. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
I agree that lower MP costs would allow them to rebuild the horde quicker - But I disagree on whether or not they really need that horde.
Quote:
1.Fast recovery after death so they can hunt more often or do other things EG: badge grind. Rather than pinned to the SH summoning.
It's your own choice of attempting to maintain a larger number of pets that's pinning you to the SH, not pet costs. My point is that you -don't need- that many pets in the first place, while your complaint is that you can't get as many as you want.
Quote:
2. Quicker rebuild of faction defense v feral's. Making repeated raids against the SH less frustrating. Encourages more raiding through faster recovery.
Same point here. Of course it's frustrating, having your 10 pets wiped out and then trying to build another horde of 10. But again, instead of making that "building a horde of 10" cheaper/easier, I think the solution is that you simply don't need a horde of 10 pets per pm.
Quote:
3. The option of being feral as a pm efficiently while retaining the option of varied pet horde. Which pinning high MP costs / maintenance of certain pets stop.
Respawn. Find a target. Summon Wrackwyrm/Wheel/two or three lesser pets. Target is killed. What exactly, about this, is inefficient? It's the same as with any ferals, except that instead of spending your own AP to make the kill, you spend your MP to summon a pet to do the kill. You keep saying that feral PM is unviable, but I get the feeling that what you really try to say, is that feral pm HORDE is unviable. Which I agree, it is - Because you don't really need that horde for anything. Actually, I think that's the key word. Horde. You ask for lower MP costs to enable bigger horde, while it seems that it doesn't matter if you have 3 pets or 10 - both are capable of killing just about whatever target you find. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
I agree that lower MP costs would allow them to rebuild the horde quicker - But I disagree on whether or not they really need that horde.
Quote:
1.Fast recovery after death so they can hunt more often or do other things EG: badge grind. Rather than pinned to the SH summoning.
It's your own choice of attempting to maintain a larger number of pets that's pinning you to the SH, not pet costs. My point is that you -don't need- that many pets in the first place, while your complaint is that you can't get as many as you want.
Quote:
2. Quicker rebuild of faction defense v feral's. Making repeated raids against the SH less frustrating. Encourages more raiding through faster recovery.
Same point here. Of course it's frustrating, having your 10 pets wiped out and then trying to build another horde of 10. But again, instead of making that "building a horde of 10" cheaper/easier, I think the solution is that you simply don't need a horde of 10 pets per pm.
Quote:
3. The option of being feral as a pm efficiently while retaining the option of varied pet horde. Which pinning high MP costs / maintenance of certain pets stop.
Respawn. Find a target. Summon Wrackwyrm/Wheel/two or three lesser pets. Target is killed. What exactly, about this, is inefficient? It's the same as with any ferals, except that instead of spending your own AP to make the kill, you spend your MP to summon a pet to do the kill. You keep saying that feral PM is unviable, but I get the feeling that what you really try to say, is that feral pm HORDE is unviable. Which I agree, it is - Because you don't really need that horde for anything. Actually, I think that's the key word. Horde. You ask for lower MP costs to enable bigger horde, while it seems that it doesn't matter if you have 3 pets or 10 - both are capable of killing just about whatever target you find.
Again I point at the Lich.
Based around 10 ghouls to reach its optimal defence and attack based off its skill simulcrum. Double what it can summon off its base MP.
No, one wrackworm is not enough on a grind and I don't get the mentality of. Oh you can summon one overly expesive pet mp wise, but you know screw the other skills that make up 75% of most the PM's skill roster. Thats Like saying "Hey Mr INfernal Behemoth all you need is your hp, forget about your claws and weapons and all your other skills."
That's a poor counter discussion. On my WM I am lucky if I can maintain two pets off the base MP of the char. That does not a good hunt make.
Again Tomppa, what your saying suggests, boring pinned to one spot again with High MP costs style of play, the exact issue that makes the other PM's no fun to play.
Also promoting more, the SH sit mentallity through the dogma of this dated style of PM play.
I am not asking for a BAZZILION PETS off respawning, but enough to give the security and slight chance of survival that a none PM gets out in the wild. TRust me a lot of characters can handle themselves feral. A Pm can do to some degree with 5+ pets.
No, I ask for lower pet costs so other PM's are not pinned to the spot. In a boring cycle that is forced upon the PM. That discourages leaving the SH (Thats bad for Max game), that stagnates the character once maxing and the only reason to have them summon is so Tanks can feel special when they attack a faction. While invun potions exist, what is the point of this action?
It is a waste of time as it stands now, Pointless...
You also are asking the class to not do what they are ment to do, whitch is summon. OK so lets take your advice and I hunt with one Hell Hound, I have tried this and you know what happened? Yeah I was completely slaughtered, the people i did, kill... slow and very painful for me the PM. I will just sit here an refresh 15-30 times while one pet kills, also making the PM stupidly vunrable using this method of play.
A pm's power comes in its horde, its pets individual are not very good. Consider hit rates and rejuv' cost on top of that.
Is a 5 horde out of respawning to much to ask? To be able to maintain a minor threat.
To be honest I have lost interest now, in pm's in general.
Out of the three available, two are CLUNKY and the pets too expensive in MP. The Wyrm Master having 150 CP of skills worth nothing but a waste in cp for an OVER costly MP price in the form of imp (But lets ignore that too huh?). Pinning the PM in the conventional style of cut / DH, summon repeat, a none varied horde I might add, choosing the cooky cutter pet and leaving other pets to rot not used.
Sure keep the stale method that will leave us all SH sitting once we all max out and let the game staginate.
Your comments Tomppa makes me think, Have you actually played a WM at all, PM in general?
I agree less could be more, and to be honest I would prefare that, but as the PM classes are built now it does not facilitate that.
Not forgetting, what about feral Tanks, when would they get to tank as an example? In your suggestion of play style it wouldn't be much of a chalenge for them. For me when things become Guaranteed and not chalenging, I get bored and loose interest. Same if the play style is stagnant, which pm's are in the currant state through overly high MP costs and raid attack through Invun' potions.
Not an issue, like I said, those PM chars will reach max... way, way, way, way behind my hunters, tanks, war mages and then get retired. I am not playing a character just to facilitate the Tanks E-Peen on a raid, while Invun' potions exist it is a dated and pointless act to summon for raid defence, all you do is delay the inevitable death v any (most) organised raid.
Naaaa, there is something wrong there, so ok, let the PM hunt more between faction / feral wipe.
Yet people want to keep using the dated and pointless endevour of summon pet defense, MADNESS! Especially while invun' potions exist.
I'm done here and with PM's, Logically looking at them v attack raid. All that work you do for a moderate horde size at best with a WM, is totally pointless while Invun potions exist.
Drop the Invun' potions, or lower MP of certain pets. If it stays as is, it's a recipe for disaster end game at max level.
Let me leave you with this Quote that sum's up PM's perfectly for me.
Q~ Did I ever tell you what the definition of Insanity is? Insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
Just like pet defence V invun' potioned prepared raids.
If your tank wants a hand job Go ask a Fallen, my PM's are done wasting resorces, XP/AP/MP and time stroking that E-Peen. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Last edited by RaelCleap on Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
As said, I've not yet played a PM in this breath, my highest char just reached lvl 18. My most successful PM was LS, god knows how long ago - He leveled up through reading, and by killing targets that he found every once in a while, with the wheel. Never had more than one or two pets in the SH as a defense - And that was my choice. Sacrificing defense, for offense/mobility.
I think it's best just to agree to disagree here, because this
Quote:
Based around 10 ghouls to reach its optimal defence and attack based off its skill simulcrum. Double what it can summon off its base MP.
highlights the biggest difference in the way we think: You see 10 ghouls as the optimal choice for a lich for defense - but that's hardly optimal. Optimal =/= Maximum. You sacrifice your offensive potential (mobility) in exchange for defense. Same thing with LS: You could summon a bunch of Aethersprites, but that's again a sacrifice of your offensive capabilities, in exchange for defense (healing, in this case).
Nothing prevents your lich with 10 ghouls just marching outside, hunting - That's just you exchanging your defensive potential, for offense.
I think petmasters are unique in that they can choose and switch their dedication on the fly - Something not many others can do. I'd gladly see other classes capable of this as well, choosing what they want to focus in on daily basis, instead of locking it down with the skills they buy. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
As said, I've not yet played a PM in this breath, my highest char just reached lvl 18. My most successful PM was LS, god knows how long ago - He leveled up through reading, and by killing targets that he found every once in a while, with the wheel. Never had more than one or two pets in the SH as a defense - And that was my choice. Sacrificing defense, for offense/mobility.
I think it's best just to agree to disagree here, because this
Quote:
Based around 10 ghouls to reach its optimal defence and attack based off its skill simulcrum. Double what it can summon off its base MP.
highlights the biggest difference in the way we think: You see 10 ghouls as the optimal choice for a lich for defense - but that's hardly optimal. Optimal =/= Maximum. You sacrifice your offensive potential (mobility) in exchange for defense. Same thing with LS: You could summon a bunch of Aethersprites, but that's again a sacrifice of your offensive capabilities, in exchange for defense (healing, in this case).
Nothing prevents your lich with 10 ghouls just marching outside, hunting - That's just you exchanging your defensive potential, for offense.
I think petmasters are unique in that they can choose and switch their dedication on the fly - Something not many others can do. I'd gladly see other classes capable of this as well, choosing what they want to focus in on daily basis, instead of locking it down with the skills they buy.
10 Ghouls does not slow Mobillity or hunting, that is the point. 5 can be gained off the base MP of the Lich, more if you TLL to get your 10 horde and your off hunting for deminished Kill xp. All at a resonable MP on every Lich pet bar wight.
Other pet masters are nowhere near as pick up and play in style.
Lets see why
15 mp for imp. I would elaborate but it would sound obnoxouse as to why this pet isn't worth its CP plus MP costs. Everyone knows why anyway.
Horrid tentacle / G-nak solid summon for 15 mp shame it takes at least a farm of 4+ to be effective.
Wrackwom 30 mp, a decent summon capable of killing, But alone leaves you super vunrable while LIVE and hunting (unlike lich).
Hell hound 20MP, it's worse damage than the ghoul and you get less of them. Many times my WM has been killed live rolling two H'hounds like this, like out right nuked, not even a challenge and not even v a tank.
Nether hound 40MP to achieve, 20 for a H'hound, 20 to rejuve to Nether hound. 10 more mp than a wrackworm in MP consumption and much worse. Seams like a bad joke that the primary hunter pet is the most expensive, counter intuitive in my oppinion.
Now work out what you get out of your base mp, nowhere near the pick up and play standard of the lich. About two cycles before you can actually hunt and then pinnned again to rejuv' for another two ap cycles.
Each hunt offering dimminished xp compared to other characters. For twice the prep time.
Then the pointlessness of these overly expensive pets in MP for redundant Raid defense. It wordn't be an issue this redundancy if the MP costs for the pets gave me a pick up and play style like that of the lich, but they don't. As it would let the WM recover and hunt straight away.
Plus a raid wipe puts my much weaker more mp expensive horde (compared to lich) back to zero and another 2-4 cycles to get a reasonable mob. even with TLL it dosen't get much better, specially with TLL cap coming.
Tedius to be pinned to the SH, just to stroke a prepped rainding Tanks E-peen for no XP wouldn't you say?
Besides this is irrelivant, I seriously doubt it will change this breath MP cost per pet, or the removal of Invun' Potions judging by the reaction to my point of view, but it's nothing WM's havent said before me and they will proberly say the same long after mine are retire. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Plus a raid wipe puts my much weaker more mp expensive horde (compared to lich) back to zero and anothe 2-4 cycles to get a reasonable mob. even with TLL it dosen't get much better, specially with TLL cap coming.
Again, this is the key disagreement. What you see as a reasonable mob (taking 2-4 cycles to raise), I see as way too much dedication for defense. You're shooting yourself in the leg, figuratively speaking, by trying to amass a horde.
Quote:
Is a 5 horde out of respawning to much to ask? To be able to maintain a minor threat.
Asking for a horde of 5 pets isn't too much to ask. Asking for a horde of 5 pets on respawn + being able to hunt, is.
Respawn. Find a target. Summon a hellhound. Let the hound do it's work. Did the target go down? No -> Rejuvinate into a Nether hound. Did it go down? No? DH target twice, rejuvinate the Nether hound or summon a new Hellhound. Total cost: 3 AP for summons, 3 AP for DH (before defense) = 6 AP. What other character can take down a target in 6 AP?
Before defenses and soak, 1 hellhound deals an avarage of 136,5 damage. Nether hound deals 220,5. That's a total of 577,5. At 6 AP. Nearly 100 dmg per AP spent. Even if the target has enough soak to reduce you down to 1 dmg per attack, that's still an avarage of 68,5 dmg, and would require an adamant kinship tank, or active protection (skill, potions, spells) - and you'd still deal over 11 dmg per Ap spent against said character, which seems more than reasonable amount, considering that you are (in this example) trying to kill a TANK, who's primary function is to soak up damage.
Why, again, do you need 5 pets? To survive? You won't survive anyway, so why pour so much resources in it? Even if you had, let's say, 15 pets out somehow, someone who stumbles upon you, will report your location back into the SH, resulting in your death by a more prepared hunter. You can TTL to get that 5 pets you want, but it'll cost you AP, meaning that you'll be able to hunt less (and the need to rejuvenate pets means more ap/mp expenditure, again lowering your capability to hunt).
I see it as a fair trade off, while you seem to think that PM's should be able to do both.
As to the "I'm vulnerable while hunting, because pets kill more slowly than spamming the attack button" argument: Yes. yes you are. That's a price you pay for using a DoT attack (pets) over a DPS (spells/weapons), and the trade off between using small amount of AP vs using larger amount of AP.
I just think your expectations on how many pets a petmaster should be able to maintain while hunting, is too high. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
Also: Summoning a few pets when you are in the SH and expecting them to maybe help a bit with SH defense = Reasonable expectation. Summoning a larger horde (no matter how big/how many PM's) and hoping that it'll stop a raid = unreasonable expectations.
Likewise:
Having a pet or two out after hunting as a feral and hoping they haven't expired by the time you are found, and thus might help a bit in your defense = reasonable expectations.
Having a huge horde out and hoping that they'll keep you alive through the night = Unreasonable expectations.
Only two classes should be surprised to find themselves dead in the morning, and that's Fallen and Void Walker - And Even they get killed every now and then (for example, when a Revenant happens upon the corpses of their targets).
Everyone else? If you expect to live through a full AP cycle without dying, your expectations are too high. _________________ "I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)
Plus a raid wipe puts my much weaker more mp expensive horde (compared to lich) back to zero and anothe 2-4 cycles to get a reasonable mob. even with TLL it dosen't get much better, specially with TLL cap coming.
Again, this is the key disagreement. What you see as a reasonable mob (taking 2-4 cycles to raise), I see as way too much dedication for defense. You're shooting yourself in the leg, figuratively speaking, by trying to amass a horde.
Quote:
Is a 5 horde out of respawning to much to ask? To be able to maintain a minor threat.
Asking for a horde of 5 pets isn't too much to ask. Asking for a horde of 5 pets on respawn + being able to hunt, is.
Respawn. Find a target. Summon a hellhound. Let the hound do it's work. Did the target go down? No -> Rejuvinate into a Nether hound. Did it go down? No? DH target twice, rejuvinate the Nether hound or summon a new Hellhound. Total cost: 3 AP for summons, 3 AP for DH (before defense) = 6 AP. What other character can take down a target in 6 AP?
Before defenses and soak, 1 hellhound deals an avarage of 136,5 damage. Nether hound deals 220,5. That's a total of 577,5. At 6 AP. Nearly 100 dmg per AP spent. Even if the target has enough soak to reduce you down to 1 dmg per attack, that's still an avarage of 68,5 dmg, and would require an adamant kinship tank, or active protection (skill, potions, spells) - and you'd still deal over 11 dmg per Ap spent against said character, which seems more than reasonable amount, considering that you are (in this example) trying to kill a TANK, who's primary function is to soak up damage.
Why, again, do you need 5 pets? To survive? You won't survive anyway, so why pour so much resources in it? Even if you had, let's say, 15 pets out somehow, someone who stumbles upon you, will report your location back into the SH, resulting in your death by a more prepared hunter. You can TTL to get that 5 pets you want, but it'll cost you AP, meaning that you'll be able to hunt less (and the need to rejuvenate pets means more ap/mp expenditure, again lowering your capability to hunt).
I see it as a fair trade off, while you seem to think that PM's should be able to do both.
As to the "I'm vulnerable while hunting, because pets kill more slowly than spamming the attack button" argument: Yes. yes you are. That's a price you pay for using a DoT attack (pets) over a DPS (spells/weapons), and the trade off between using small amount of AP vs using larger amount of AP.
I just think your expectations on how many pets a petmaster should be able to maintain while hunting, is too high.
Yet you have no pm experiance. Yes I believe pm's should be able to hunt with 5 pets. I have no expectations raid nor feral, both = redundant defence and inevitable death V a prepped raid or T3 while feral.
But with all the PM's short comings there is one quick solution when faced with these main points.
1. redudant raid defence, a complete waste of time v prepped raid and guess what? It yields no XP and keeps the pm pinned to the sh.
2. slow and painful grind for limited xp compared to other classe that are pick up and play, this includes the lich in the pick up and play factor.
3. The slow build of a reasonable hunting pack that takes minimum a cycle and a bit.
You are under the misconception that I dislike dieing, all my chars are death farmers. A lot of my tactics are built around dieing. It Makes sense the majority of my char's being feral.
Back to the suggestions made, what you are saying solves nothing in regards to the Idium of nether hound and the waste of cp of imp, it does not fix the tedius nature of the WM through MP costs that are way to high.
Combine this with invun potions and the redundancy of pet defence in such a raid attack. Why bother playing one?
Yes I can play it sub par in faction for next to no reward, or play it ferel again for less than little reward. If I play correct as the class is intended and get forced, pigeon holed into a faction I become a log, rejuv sitting yawnfest, or sub par hunting if I keep the mob small, rediculous and less than half as effective in recovery and agression as the lich.
My solution after this debate...
Don't play one, they are redundant!
FYI look at the concensus of the past WM's, we say the same thing. I just said it in more detail, explaining why. But here is a quote from this thread and it is so true it hurts.
Kharn wrote:
I played a petmaster last breath and I'm never doing it again because it's not fun.
I think I have covered all the points why, the other stuff you have asked, I won't reply to, the answers are quite thourough that I have given throughout the thread. I haven't the energy now to repeat myself.
This is not a snap judgement on the PM classes ether, it is from thourough testing of different styles of play.
Like I said, this pointing at the PM / Invun' potions issues was done now as it was made even more crystal after the OS crushing of SUNSET. Now I know Wiz cried "ZOMG 5K mp sorcerer", but you know what, even without all that mp, even on a one faction raid with OS, do you think there is a point, a reason, to make a defence horde, wasting time / ap/mp and resorces v an organised violent bunch hopped up on invun' potions?
Well?
Considering it is one of the main PM's purposes.
My oppinion is, even though this has been pointed out, all the reasons a fair few times (Aidens WM post) from two years ago I believe. I know it is frivoulous based on strong opposition. Am I the only one that see's the damage it will course later this breath when people max out? This redundancy and rediculous regroup cost in MP for the WM.
*shrugs*
I am done with Pet masters, for the same reasons that those PM's before me quit them.
You guys and girls can keep the asumption that I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't the time nor energy to continue wasting my breath further here. All the points have been made and it leaves me...
Disapointed and sad!
Oh and Tomppa, make one, see for yourself. Hell I ain't gonna convince you and at this point, I couldn't give two F's fighting an up hill battle for it to be addressed. I haven't the patience for it, nor wish to waste anymore of my time on it.
I will Just drop the PM's like a hot potato and play a relevant character instead. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
*walks away* _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
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