Faction level differences and raids

[Sac]

I really hope this is not going to start down the path of looking for a mechanic whereby Roleplay trumps Gameplay, because I think that's what a couple of people are looking for.
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[Kharn]

[Yukari]

What Merlin said, pretty much.
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Tanks for everything.

[SocialJusticeWarrior]

I think faction level is okay as a general measure of how difficult a faction's stronghold is going to be, and thus how much renown you should earn. Past that, I don't think there should be anything that forces you to not raid a smaller faction, beyond general human decency (or as much of that as you can expect when playing a murder simulator). A tiny faction that consists of just a VW, an NC, a Lich, and a Corruptor can kick pretty much everyone's teeth in, whereas a bigger faction can easily be way too heavy on spellcaster classes or have no reliable tanks or some other factor that makes it difficult for them to raid factions their own size.

[retsamajnin]

A big part of the fun in a game is making sure it is competitive. There is nothing competitive about large factions going after small factions. And I don't think people should feel obligated to join a large faction out of necessity.

As for small factions working together, that is not particularly practical. Why don't they just join the same faction? Organizing your own faction for raids can sometimes be tricky. Trying to get together with other factions just turns into a nightmare with all the different alts we play and everyone having different schedules.

Everyone dies in the game. Pretty often, in fact. Which is fine. But it is not a lot of fun to get stomped on by big guys when you don't have the resources to fight back. You either end up joining a large faction yourself (furthering the problem) or you deal with it by quitting or just not enjoying the game.

As for the roleplay vs gameplay comments, I don't even see where anyone mentioned roleplay in the topic. Are you just trying to goad RPers now?

[Warbandit]

(1) Less onerous ways of accumulating renown. Implement passive renown generation which is increasingly taxed as there are more members (in addition to the existing methods of accumulating renown).

Eg. The first 5 members passively generate 10 renown per week each, the next 5 members passively generates 5 renown per week each, the next 5 generates 2 renown per week each and every member after that generates 1 renown per week each.

This means that although the absolute amount of renown generated by large factions are still the highest, small factions (and RP/passive factions) can still expand at a decent rate. Using this example, OS with 45 members will generate 115 renown per week whilst Knights of L Ron with 7 members will generate 60 renown per week. This is pretty good as L Ron will have 52% of OS’ passive renown generation but with around 85% less members.

Furthermore, practical upgrades should be cheaper in renown, and flavour upgrades should be considered “luxury” upgrades. This allows smaller factions can have sufficient safe sizes and modest amounts of one shot upgrades whilst the larger factions can use their renown for more expensive, customised flavour upgrades such as renaming SH tile, modifying tile description, being able to change tile type to another SH approved tile type etc. without bolstering their actual power even more.

(2) Reduce SH setup costs for small factions in terms of both AP, MP and time requirements. A level 1 faction can start at 5AP, 5MP and a 12 hour cooldown, scaling upwards to the current costs for level 7+ factions.

(3) No renown gain for raiding downwards where there is a 4 level difference or greater but otherwise, renown from raiding should be increased.

With respect to complaints about retaliating against larger factions, I don't see why any smaller faction is entitled to this. Anyone that wants to take out a larger faction should prove their worth in combat. Can't do it because faction too small? Then grow your faction. It just doesn't make sense that some level 2-3 faction should feel entitled to retaliate against a level 8-10 if they don't have the raiding power to do it.

[Sac]

[Edith]

I run three micro factions. From my point of view being raided isn't the problem. It is the renown loss from being raided. It is really annoying to work for two weeks to build renown and then be hit by someone much larger and lose two weeks work.

I wouldn't put in mechanics to discourage raiding at all. Deal with the renown loss as that is what hurts most.

Not worried about the AP to set a SH and repair the forts. Cost of going it alone.

[Teksura]

There are a lot of rough ideas we've been throwing into the idea pool, none have actually hit formal discussion yet, but I'd like to throw something out there that came up, was bounced off a few others for a while, and hasn't hit formal discussions yet either.






Some factions are too big to fight

You know what sucks as a small faction? The fact that you can't actually hurt a larger faction. Some factions are just too big to fight, which makes them "safer" since only a few factions can hope to go against them. This safety means people are attracted to them even more, and the faction just gets bigger. The problem here is it means making a brand new faction is really difficult. You start at the bottom of the food chain and people joining you do so with that knowledge.



Vassals

Believe it or not, the game already has a point where once you reach a certain membership size, it is more advantageous for you to split into 2 factions and continue operating as 1 (as allies). This point is when your ward hits its cap in size. But nobody actually splits their faction apart in this situation because A: We just don't think like that, and B: The game doesn't support such cooperation this way. We can do something about B.

Vassal factions would basically be offshoots of an existing faction. As an alternative, 1 faction could choose to become the Vassal of another. Think of this like a super version of an alliance.

For starters, all members of a Vassal faction are technically considered members of the main faction. This means no more than 1 alt allowed and you won't get XP beating on each other. Mails/Announcements go to all factions when designated as such.


This splits forces apart defensively, making each individual base a smaller, easier target. This also lets you specialize bonuses. Your factional craters and enchanters may all gather in 1 Vassal faction which gives good bonuses to searching, crafting, enchanting, and has a base set up in an area with plenty of potion resources. Meanwhile your raiders may prefer bonuses more suited to their needs, and located more on the front lines, near portals.



How to do?

Well, something that was said here made a lot of sense, and I'm toying with the idea a lot right now. The cost to make a stronghold being based on how powerful the faction is.

If you're a small faction, setting up costs hardly anything. It's easy to get where you want to be from spawn and still set up.

Get too big and you might be spending all your AP just to set up, possibly even requiring help from other members, which means spending a lot of effort just holding an area before setting up.



Think of it this way: A large faction presently may have several raiding teams each operating at different times. Imagine if they were all operating under the same banner, but based in their own stronghold. If you got hit by a larger faction you could at least fight back by hitting the stronghold of that raid team. Oh sure, another raid team could turn around and come after you, but they are likely to have their hands full with the guys they just hit, too.

As a bonus, by making factions grow "wide" rather than "tall", the actual area of influence of a faction EXPANDS. It's not a matter of "their base is located here", it's instead a matter of "they have forces here, here, and here."



Thoughts?
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[Tomppa]

[retsamajnin]

Will comment further later, but I am really liking the potential of the Vassal idea. It definitely sounds interesting.

[Teksura]

[Sac]

I like the concept but something like would would require quite a bit of testing to see how it worked out I'd think. It sounds something like making book 10 xp 100% of the time. Great in theory but it has significant flow-on effects.

Again similar questions like, what is actually going to force a faction to split?

Also if all the crafters are in their crafting bonus SH and the fighters are in the fighting bonus SH, it's not rocket science to work out which one's going to be getting hit all the time.
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[Tomppa]

Perhaps prevent a character from entering other vassal strongholds if they have already entered one in the last 24 hours? This would mean that to "change" the SH in which your raider/crafter resides, you'd need to stay outside of the SH's for 24 hours (which would increase available targets for hunters). This would also limit the usage of using vassal SH's for merely "staging points" since you'd need start moving in in advance, instead of just one/half/third of an AP cycle before the actual raid. This would also mean that active defenders could leave their SH and enter the vassal SH under attack only during the same tick that the attackers moved. If they show up after the next tick, they'll need to bash their way in just like everybody else.

EDIT: Also, while a shared safe would be more convenient, I'd prefer this option, because it would increase available targets. In the case of highly enchanted weapons/armour that you want to transfer, you could always coordinate a trade with another active from the other SH to avoid the risk of death and decay - Increasing interaction between characters would be an added bonus, IMO.
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"I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)

[Tomppa]

Additional thought: maybe your personal footlocker could be shared between sh's, so raiders can stash away their bashing weapons while they "go feral" for 24 hours, but the main safe should not be shared, I think.
_________________
"I am your Slave
And you will Reward me
For I shall be Faithful."
(That's from Dracula, by Stoker.)