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Nexus Clash :: View topic - Remove renown loss from having your standard captured.
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: Remove renown loss from having your standard captured.
I suggest reworking renown so that it can only be gained or spent, never lost from being raided.
Renown is basically your CP or XP for factions. If you lost CP or XP from dying, most people would hate that. This would significantly help smaller or newer factions grow. It is very discouraging to save up your renown to buy a new upgrade, only to get raided and lose it. I think this would be a rather significant quality of life improvement for many factions.
The current renown system is pretty stagnated.
Faction A and B are the same level.
Faction A raids faction B and gains 10 renown.
Faction B recaps and counter raids, gaining 5 on recap and 10 on capturing the standard.
Faction A recaps, getting the 5 renown back.
In this scenario, no one gained any renown from the flag caps. They just traded it back and forth. The only net gain is from the kills. Kill renown seems to be rather wonky. The way things are now, trying to build up renown is an uphill battle.
I actually find it very beneficial that failing factions lose renown and eventually when they reach a 0 renown score end up not being worth any renown to an attacker.
retsamajnin wrote:
I think this would be a rather significant quality of life improvement for many factions.
This is not what quality of life improvement means. A QoL improvement would be something like inventory sorting, or similar features which make the interface easier to use or the the features easier to use. _________________
I actually find it very beneficial that failing factions lose renown and eventually when they reach a 0 renown score end up not being worth any renown to an attacker.
retsamajnin wrote:
I think this would be a rather significant quality of life improvement for many factions.
This is not what quality of life improvement means. A QoL improvement would be something like inventory sorting, or similar features which make the interface easier to use or the the features easier to use.
I find that big and/or older factions with lots and lots of renown could care less how much a small faction has. They are not raiding for renown. They have all their stronghold extras purchase and are often hoarding a giant pile or renown.
Smaller factions or newer factions benefit from begin able to retain their quota so they can catch up to the bigger factions that have been able to keep their massive quotas from a numerous past breaths.
It think what retsamajnin is trying to do is to level the playing field a little bit and allow for more consistent growth and engagement in the game. It can get boring being raided again and again and not being able to improve your faction’s assets no matter what you do.
So, I applaud anyone trying to think of ways that are out of the box that may allow for a different and more a interesting and engaging dynamic that will keep a wide array of people invested and playing.
For every raid, there is a faction being raided and a faction doing the raiding. Renown isn't being generated, it is being traded. The problem is that factions are also spending renown. Renown is no longer gained from infusion. So, we have a system that is practically bleeding renown. If you have tons of upgrades, you probably don't care, but for anyone else it is a problem. And what is a failing faction? Are you wanting people to get discouraged and quit? That is what I am getting from this. Just because a faction is worth 0 renown doesn't mean people will not raid them.
I agree with making renown being unable to be lost. While I see Teksura's point, I find the respite one could find in being "worthless to raid" renown-wise to be insufficient when you are struggling to get your safe size past 150, or get the comparatively costly board upgrades - it will take a great effort to get those 50 points of renown and not lose them in the blink of an eye when someone decides to stop by.
To that effect, I figured a middle point: what about factions can't lose renown if they have less than an arbitrary threshold? Say, 50. If they got 50 or less, they are already "worthless to raid", but can already afford to buy some things. If they manage to accumulate more than that, then they begin to lose it with raids as normal, until such a point they fall below the threshold again.
And finally, as a linguist, I welcome any clarifications on semantics, but also, as a linguist, I find it silly that a simple phrase out of place (which probably was just a mistake, too, and not an attempt to hijack anything) is gaining so much lever as to draw discussion away from the main idea of the thread. C'mon. _________________ Tanks for everything.
Just because a faction is worth 0 renown doesn't mean people will not raid them.
Probably not, but I assume the general idea was that it at least will seem a moderately less enticing target compared to those factions that have some renown. _________________ Tanks for everything.
Joined: Jul 05, 2011 Posts: 609 Location: Behind you
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject:
And thereby remove any inspiration for raiding? _________________ DS Vengence (10321)|Exar Kun (9839)|Odysseus (6385)|Sac II (3599)|Secundus Nulli (3900)|Spécïâl Chàrăcŧẽr (6153)|Darth Bane (5067)|The occasional shadow (4078)|Ventis Secundus (3858)
Renown is already really thin justification for raiding. I really hope breath 4 includes territorial control of some kind, and resources/rewards to be fought over so that territorial control matters.
The comparison between renown and CP makes sense to me, though. It'd help keep the game from snowballing too much if just participating in inter-faction activity let you slowly accumulate an advantage that wasn't subject to loss or disruption.
And what is a failing faction? Are you wanting people to get discouraged and quit? That is what I am getting from this.
That's quite a jump you made to get that. I gave a very specific reason why this helps a failing faction: After they hit a certain point a lot of people are less willing to raid them due to the lack of renown. I have no idea how you took that and got "If people are raided less as a result of being a less tempting target, the lack of dying will discourage them and make them quit".
retsamajnin wrote:
Just because a faction is worth 0 renown doesn't mean people will not raid them.
Uhh, you know I've lost count of how many times in the past month I've been on a raid team that had to change targets after we realized the guys we were thinking of hitting actually had 0 renown. It does indeed deter some raids. Lots of people do care about renown. _________________
I think a lot of people raid for the sake of raiding. But let's assume you get passed over if you are at 0 renown. That doesn't stop you from immediately becoming a target as soon as you gain a little renown. In order for a faction to dig their way out of the 0 renown hole, they are going to need to pull off multiple raids before they catch anyone's attention and simply lose what they just gained. You are often finding yourself unable to get enough renown to actually purchase anything.
Just because a faction is worth 0 renown doesn't mean people will not raid them.
Uhh, you know I've lost count of how many times in the past month I've been on a raid team that had to change targets after we realized the guys we were thinking of hitting actually had 0 renown. It does indeed deter some raids. Lots of people do care about renown.
And I have never *once* looked at how much renown a faction has before declaring them a target. I've been surprised a couple of times to see the zero renown gain once we cap.
I've never looked at Renown when picking a target. Usually ends up being some combination of the following factors:
-Did they raid us recently?
-Have we raided them recently?
-Are the raiders who showed up able to clear them?
-Are we able to get to them without wasting too much AP?
Raiding is a decent source of XP in T3, but for the most part I just do it because it's fun and a good way to make use of that build you've been grinding for months. I'm definitely with Kiralio on wanting to see a more fleshed out system of resource/territory control that makes raiding feel like you're making progress towards a larger goal.
In regards to having no renown to steal being a deterrent to raiding factions, as far as I'm aware, the per-kill renown gained for killing a hostile player is still gained.
Quote:
Renown can also be gained by killing individual members of Hostile factions. One point of renown are earned if your faction has the victim's faction set to Hostile. If the victim's faction also has yours set to Hostile (and you are thus Enemies), an additional point of renown is earned.
So even if the faction being raided has zero renown, the raiders will still earn renown from clearing them (This, by the way, is also what keeps the game from "bleeding" renown). That way, assuming renown is something you hunt for as a raider, there's no target that's worth utterly no renown to you.
I've seen testimony around the forums that a lot of smaller factions trying to get up off the ground are really discouraged by constant raiding and being unable to afford safe space. So it doesn't seem that anything is passively deterring them from being raided regularly.
Raiding, much like killing, is a fact of life in the Nexus. I think making it less harmful to those smaller factions would be an improvement over status quo. Maybe make it so that you can only have renown taken once you're over a certain limit? That way you can get those first few upgrades in safety, but after a while each upgrade costs more than the limit and you have to put yourself at risk.
In regards to having no renown to steal being a deterrent to raiding factions, as far as I'm aware, the per-kill renown gained for killing a hostile player is still gained.
Quote:
Renown can also be gained by killing individual members of Hostile factions. One point of renown are earned if your faction has the victim's faction set to Hostile. If the victim's faction also has yours set to Hostile (and you are thus Enemies), an additional point of renown is earned.
So even if the faction being raided has zero renown, the raiders will still earn renown from clearing them (This, by the way, is also what keeps the game from "bleeding" renown). That way, assuming renown is something you hunt for as a raider, there's no target that's worth utterly no renown to you.
Kill renown is very buggy. There has been a bug report made in regards to that. I just raided last night and we killed maybe 15 people from an enemy faction, got 0 renown from the kills. The only renown awarded was when we capped the flag. If kill renown worked reliably, this wouldn't be a major issue. But it doesn't.
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