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T2 still looks pretty barren for petmasters. :/ Or am I wrong in assuming that spells & pets don't mix well due both hinging on MP?[/list]
I noticed this too, and wonder if summons will be incorporated into the new spell system?
As it is a long slog for Petmaster classes if they do not wish to have the character aggressive in itself, but having pets do that for them.
In T2 it would be nice to see some sort of training pet
Familiar? Cherub? Pit Gremlin?
My thinking in this, I currently have a Gremlin using Doomhowler. When it is in its basic form, even while sleeping, I would get would get killed while Feral with no problem.
Yes it is a source of minimal sleeping xp, but so is a gibbering flesh.
A T2 pet would provide some things.
It can be a fun source of RP.
It is very useful for feral players / provides extra xp for those attacking the summoner if they kill the pet first.
It would let players decide if they want to make the commitment of being a petmaster for minimal CP cost.
It would let people see how a PM works before the micro management of T3 pets.
Its power is irrelevant as you balance to T2 and reflect its power in the Skills cost in CP.
It could be a buff instead of a attacking defense / Active while pet is alive. With effect being based on Evil, Good and Neutral alignment (one for each Class T2 tree that leads into a PM class).
Its utility does not have to be purely attacking defense (Which pets currently predominantly do now) is what I am trying to convey.
But with no knowledge on how the B4 PM's and summoning systems mechanic works, who's to say.
The T2 summons could be Planar Guild based (Like Sect of Maevel is now) but have the summon scaled by Tier of the Character in the Planar Guild. If it was a Cast summon granted by the Guild.... It improves at T3 naturally, but its T2 variant would be a fun training device / method to test the water and see if you like it.
I for one would love a Mutating Flesh summon provided by Sires of Retribution, that I could summon at T2, and have it improve when the character hits T3 to retain its relevance / usefulness.
As a Petmaster note in general it would be nice to have a "Wander" function for a pet (that lets you release it to free roam). A function such as this would open up new skill possabilities while feeding currant faves like "Cut the Silver Chord" that Corruptor's use.
Could have a skill that lets you see the Wandering pets location and if someone is there.
A Skill that allows you to set the wandering pets stance Aggressive / Defensive.
A skill that lets you communicate through the Wandering summon / speak with someone through the summon on the same tile.
A skill that lets you rejuvenate a Wandering summon.
Enslave a certain type of Wandering summon to your control.... EG: Zombies Only (Lich).
Ect, Ect, Ect,
Just some thoughts. Rael Out. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Last edited by RaelCleap on Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
I'll echo "confusing." I'm not super concerned since I've generally passed on spellcasting anyway (largely because of the MP-throttling Tek described above), but I guess I don't really understand the goals? Mundane weapons follow a pretty clear system of tradeoffs: HtH is no maintenance but is weakest/least flexible, ranged is high maintenance but most powerful, melee splits the difference. Spells... I'm not really clear on, especially with strong weapon support built into the classes.
Other stuff I'm confused about:
Are there still multiple spells of any given damage type (Fire Dart, Flame Bolt, etc.), or just a generic "fire spell" that gets amped up by the skills you've taken?
Relatedly, are affinity bonuses still a thing?
What kind of spell loadouts do you expect to be common? Right now, combatants tend to load up on one damage type and eschew the others, enchanters grab something cheap from each type so they can do their thing, and maybe you splash in a utility spell here and there. What's the expectation for B4?
Less a question than a comment: T2 still looks pretty barren for petmasters. :/ Or am I wrong in assuming that spells & pets don't mix well due both hinging on MP?
I can easily see how spells could be confusing - it's a whole new system. Hell, I helped work on it and I still get confused at times, and I very much doubt I'm the only one.
As for your other questions.
One base spell of each type, which you can modify through augmentations.
Nope!
Personally, I suspect combat casters would pick up two fully augmented spells, along with reveal and a defensive spell. Of course, I don't know how it'll play out - this is still fairly new. Enchanters - we haven't settled on what role knowing a spell will play with enchanting. Of course, they'll be able to switch up their spells by using spellgems/scrolls, so they'll be free to experiment!
Yeah, it's tricky to do skills for someone wanting to be a pet master without giving them pets at T2 ( which isn't likely to happen) - at the same time, it'll depend on what we end up doing with PMs - their maintenance costs might be reduced so that they can feel comfortable doing glyphs and alchemy, but at the same time it's unlikely that hitting someone will ever be considered better than summoning a pet to chew their face off, which obviously makes it less likely that they will want to get those combat skills.
That is a shame that T2 pets isn't likely. There is such potential there if the implementation is done well.
Otherwise a T2 PM saving for pets will still find their grind through T2 rather dull. (My experience of the first and second tier with all my PM characters).
As a noob I constantly questioned... Why no pets at T2?! GAhhhhh, so much XP's before my MURDER FACE!! only 9 more levels.... (I joke, but 't'was the sentiment for EVERY pm I have played).
A counter-point about no tanks ect at T2 Mmmm, The new in depth skills scream with the potential of a T2 pet Skill to mix it up, slotted nicely into the tier.
Why set the Bar for PM players only at T3?
Why think of all summons as "attacking" summons only, when conceptualizing new "Kinds" of Pets for B4?
It will be a disappointment for me as a PM player, seeing the same "Mistake" of leaving it out of T2, Especially with the new skills being so much more in depth.
It will be even more disappointing if the pets summoned stay in a very similar Attack / Defense dynamic. Which they currently are now in majority. The damage type being the only defining factor of most pets.
Personal Opinion, It is a Mistake leaving pets out of T2.
Same with maybe using T2 pets for Certain planar Guilds...
Lost potential... _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Are there still multiple spells of any given damage type (Fire Dart, Flame Bolt, etc.), or just a generic "fire spell" that gets amped up by the skills you've taken?
Relatedly, are affinity bonuses still a thing?
What kind of spell loadouts do you expect to be common? Right now, combatants tend to load up on one damage type and eschew the others, enchanters grab something cheap from each type so they can do their thing, and maybe you splash in a utility spell here and there. What's the expectation for B4?
As for your other questions.
One base spell of each type, which you can modify through augmentations.
Nope!
Personally, I suspect combat casters would pick up two fully augmented spells, along with reveal and a defensive spell. Of course, I don't know how it'll play out - this is still fairly new. Enchanters - we haven't settled on what role knowing a spell will play with enchanting. Of course, they'll be able to switch up their spells by using spellgems/scrolls, so they'll be free to experiment!
To expand on this: familiarity bonus has been completely dropped, because having to get a couple spells you never use just to power up one spell seemed counter-productive. You can still get multiple spells of the same damage type and augment them differently if you want to RP as a fire-mage or something, but because you aren't forced into a single damage type anymore, I'm thinking most players will pick up at least two different combat spell types. _________________ - Officer Horwood frowns. "A fallen angel and a redeemed demon. This looks like the start of a bad joke."
Will pets be part of the new spell System, or will it be a system in itself? _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Are there still multiple spells of any given damage type (Fire Dart, Flame Bolt, etc.), or just a generic "fire spell" that gets amped up by the skills you've taken?
Relatedly, are affinity bonuses still a thing?
What kind of spell loadouts do you expect to be common? Right now, combatants tend to load up on one damage type and eschew the others, enchanters grab something cheap from each type so they can do their thing, and maybe you splash in a utility spell here and there. What's the expectation for B4?
As for your other questions.
One base spell of each type, which you can modify through augmentations.
Nope!
Personally, I suspect combat casters would pick up two fully augmented spells, along with reveal and a defensive spell. Of course, I don't know how it'll play out - this is still fairly new. Enchanters - we haven't settled on what role knowing a spell will play with enchanting. Of course, they'll be able to switch up their spells by using spellgems/scrolls, so they'll be free to experiment!
To expand on this: familiarity bonus has been completely dropped, because having to get a couple spells you never use just to power up one spell seemed counter-productive. You can still get multiple spells of the same damage type and augment them differently if you want to RP as a fire-mage or something, but because you aren't forced into a single damage type anymore, I'm thinking most players will pick up at least two different combat spell types.
Expanding further: We are presently working out individual names for the various combinations of spells and augments. We are trying to do it without using prefixes, too. This system actually gives you manyore spell options whole reducing the number of actual items in the table. So you're less likely to get stuff you don't want. _________________
*Sigh* _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
Which is fine, I usually don't think out my builds anyways and just goes with what I want to do at the time.
I expect most people to get all the core skills that are appropriate for their build (so, no augment spell if they are a weapon user and not the ability that triggers on some weapon hits if they use spells). As for the rest just get whatever looks fun.
For what the core skills actually do, one is a flat +1 damage, one lets you get a temporary aura that adds 2 damage when active, one restores mana, one lets you use augmented spells and one has a chance to activate and in some way increases weapon accuracy.
TLDR of the spell system - everything has a 100% hit chance, the damage is semi-random, there is a bonus effect with a chance to trigger depending on the type of damage (slashing causes bleeding, fire sets the enemy on fire, radiant heals you etc.).
If it helps you can think of augments as letting you cast different versions of the spell, with each element having 12 versions. One basic version, 4 augmented versions (which cost 1 additional mana but are in some way improved), and 7 double augmented versions (which cost 2 additional mana but are in some ways more powerful then the base).
Will we still be able to custom the cast scripts of the spells we choose? _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
In 4.0 an offensive fire spell costs between 2 and 4 MP depending on the number of augments, and even the most expensive t2 combat spells cost only 6 MP.
Ah, so damaging spells are low-MP, but other utility spells and buffing spells which are often used in combat situations - such as Combat Clarity (now 40 MP) and Reveal (now 25 MP) are greatly hiked. Guess we'll see how it goes!
With my main spellcaster being an enchanter, I'm less worried about combat spells than the mechanics of enchanting in the next breath. Will I still need to learn related spells to cast enchantments? And if so, will I still be able to learn five different damage types of spells so that I can be as effective as I am now?
Will we still be able to custom the cast scripts of the spells we choose?
As a credit store option? Probably yes - although the findable in spellgem thing will probably end up changing due to the new system and with spells being able to be forgotten and the new durability system we will need to change the way custom items work. One thing that is being discussed is a way to keep and reapply the custom name/description if the item ends up lost/destroyed.
Kylinn wrote:
With my main spellcaster being an enchanter, I'm less worried about combat spells than the mechanics of enchanting in the next breath. Will I still need to learn related spells to cast enchantments? And if so, will I still be able to learn five different damage types of spells so that I can be as effective as I am now?
We will take the spellcasting changes into account when designing the enchant system, but the specifics of enchanting are something we will decide when we make the classes capable of it - probably after Tanks, Hunters, Warmages and Petmasters. I should point out that switching spells known should be much easier under the current system - just forget one of the spells you know and use a spellgem to learn a spell that you don't know - but whether you need to do that or not to enchant items has yet to be decided.
Joined: Jan 19, 2010 Posts: 2278 Location: Charlotte's Bakery University
Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject:
RaelCleap wrote:
Will we still be able to custom the cast scripts of the spells we choose?
We're aiming to make most text you can broadcast to other players or the room customizable, including activated skills, weapon attacks, etc. and not just spells. The current spell renaming system is clunky and buggy though, so custom spells as they are are unlikely to get grandfathered in when the breath changes.
Well it is obvious currant spell gems won't pass over to B4, as it is a totally new system. I'm glad to hear the customisation will still be there. I'm still disappointed at the wasted potential in ignoring possable T2 pets.
Sucks to be a PM waiting to hit the high bar of T3, without the abillity to practice the method of "Play" at T2, or play the purpose of the summoner class at T2. While other classes get their role at T2.
It looks like a case of put up with it, and shut up.
Lost potential in so many ways, and a stiff middle finger to the PM players at T2.
Meh. it is what it is... T2 remains stale and dull for Pet masters. _________________ “I'm a man of simple tastes. I'm always satisfied with the best.” ~Oscar Wilde
"Everyone loves to hate a good villain!" Dr. Cleaver
It looks like a case of put up with it, and shut up.
There is a reason behind it, and that reason was explained when you brought it up before. We're tired of repeating ourselves, so as for the latter part, please do. Most of your posts in this thread have been lamenting about this exact thing which was already discussed, and the thread was even linked. You know it's not going to happen and you know why we found it to be a terrible and impractical idea. But you keep bringing it back up over and over again to the point where we're starting to see it as thread hijacking. Enough. _________________
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