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Nexus Clash :: View topic - Power-Packed Mafia: Game Thread: Town Victory!
Sorry, did I miss something? On N1, what reason did Skoffin have to believe that you were not scum? I think I take particular umbrage at the Skoffin-blame there since I also had the ability to protect you on N1 and explicitly chose not to do so.
Let's look back at the end of Day 1 with non-Tek glasses: a townie was lynched. Two of the people voting for that townie, particularly the one that started the wagon and the person who hammered, have claimed role knowledge of another person. I think it's a totally reasonable suspicion, with no other knowledge of the setup, to think that this could be the scumteam making a gambit about role knowledge in order to ensure a town lynch. Ultimately, although your intentions were good Tek, based on the outcome of your actions at the end of Day 1 I saw you as a good candidate for scum.
There's another point I'd like to make, but I could be wrong about it so I need clarification from Eagle - who did you roleblock on Night 1? You claimed to have blocked me, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Joined: Oct 12, 2015 Posts: 1085 Location: The United States of America
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:06 am Post subject:
Samizdat wrote:
There's another point I'd like to make, but I could be wrong about it so I need clarification from Eagle - who did you roleblock on Night 1? You claimed to have blocked me, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
You'll see these are done differently. You can blame the month long days.
Again, a balance mistake on my part, I didn't let the killer use their secondary action if they made the kill. _________________ 8:17 PM - BlackHeartKabal: HOW IS 42 KILLS AN A
8:17 PM - BlackHeartKabal: FOURTY TWO
8:17 PM - BlackHeartKabal: FOURTY TWOOOO
8:17 PM - BlackHeartKabal: IS ONLY AN A
8:17 PM - BlackHeartKabal: HOW DO YOU GET AN S ON LEBLANC
So does that mean they could have chosen to have Pika kill on N1 and Eagle roleblock, but they chose to stalk and kill instead? Or was it set up to where only Eagle could kill at first and Pika gained the ability to kill when Eagle was lynched?
If we had no-lynched and / or mass-claimed on Day 1, I'm not sure scum had any rational chance. Even though none of the investigations or saves helped town, the information that Tek and Wozzy had about each other was more than enough to get the ball rolling on finding the two scum.
As for the pacing, I feel that I'm somewhat to blame. I was semi-intentionally stalling near the start of Day 2, so that my claim would be as iron-clad as I could get it. I knew my real claim would surprise people, so I wanted them to have a chance to form guesses about what I might be.
Overall, I enjoyed that both of my dudes won, even though I died as both of them. Good job to Skoffin and Samizdat for staying on the right side of the end game lynches.
Sorry, did I miss something? On N1, what reason did Skoffin have to believe that you were not scum?
Well... You missed the whole thing I said about having claimed to be able to verify someone else, which is more than anyone else claimed. That gives protection roles 2 options:
A: Protect the person who claimed to have valuable information as opposed to protecting randomly. If you are wrong in this case, a random dies like usual.
Or
B: Protect random as opposed to protecting the person who claimed valuable information. If you are wrong in this case, the town loses someone with vital information it could have used.
Saying "But you only claimed to have valuable information, you weren't confirmed" is kind of like lynching a cop just because they claimed cop with a guilty and haven't been confirmed yet. The job of a doctor is not merely "Protect only someone confirmed to be town", the goal is to protect potential valuable information for the town and possibly extend the game by stopping a nightkill in the process".
A good example of this is in a scenario where someone has been suspicious all day 1, and nearly gets lynched but instead they claim to be a cop. Some people think it might actually be scum trying to bait out a cop CC but most don't want to take the risk. So the lynch dies down and switches to someone else, who happens to be a townie. The Doctor should remain on the cop even though the cop is scummy and unconfirmed because if he is town, not only will he produce vital information the town can use, but the actual scum will really want him dead. A lot of this falls apart under very special circumstances where you have more claims floating about, but in general it's a really good idea to protect the only information the town has when only 1 person claims to have it.
But don't take any of the accusations against Skoffin personally. Finding a way to blame everything that went wrong in the game on Skoffin is kind of my hobby. _________________
That logic works fine in a standard game where town has at most 1 cop and 1 doctor. In that case, keeping the person most likely to be cop alive is imperative. In this game, we knew that everyone had an ability, and therefore, during the game, everyone had approximately equal worth to the town (of course now that it's over we know that some were more powerful/useful than others, but during the game this was not known).
Teksura wrote:
it's a really good idea to protect the only information the town has when only 1 person claims to have it.
Except in this case, it wasn't 1 person that claimed to have it - Wozzy claimed role knowledge and you two did not make it immediately clear that you were vetting each other. When invisime-as-wozzy revealed that both of you were cops, I went back to when Wozzy revealed that he also had role knowledge to see if Tek had backed off. Instead, almost immediately after that revelation, Wozzy and Tek were disputing something unrelated. To me, this wasn't immediately verifiable even when invisime-as-wozzy claimed it. Hell, I made things even more confusing by confirming that I thought some players may have had role knowledge.
I think there's a problem with judging the game with the lens of "if we had followed strategy X, town definitely wins." There was no way to know that mass claiming/no lynching on Day 1 was the optimal strategy during Day 1. When I made the argument for a no-lynch, the resounding response was always "we don't know that town can gain ground at night, that strategy is stupid." As much as I disagreed with the logic, the statement that we did not know all the roles in the game was very much true. Open games give an advantage to town, closed games to scum. That information is crucial in deciding Day 1 actions, and in this case the lack of knowledge of setup made a day 1 mass claim seem ineffective and a no-lynch unpersuasive.
I actually think town only won this (or at least won the way it did) due to scum misplays. If they did indeed have the ability to roleblock and kill on N1, but chose to stalk instead then that seems like a suboptimal move, and in the end resulted in Eagle lying about roleblocking me. That lie is what, in my eyes, confirmed Eagle as scum. Even then, if Eagle hadn't suicided on D2, we would have had to convince Skoffin to change votes and there's no way to guarantee that would have worked. If Pika had attempted to reject invisime-as-wozzy's roleclaim instead of making a similar but non-conflicting claim, then the vote on D2 would have been even more difficult for town.
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